Obama's Hat Is In The Ring - Does He Have a Chance?

Barack Obama formerly announced that he is exploring the possibility of running for President in 2008. Translation: He's running. So now that it seems official that he will be a player in what will surely be a vicious battle for the next Presidency, does he have what it takes to actually win? His popularity is on the rise, as it seems at least a portion of the American public is ready for a fresh face in the White House. He seems to have a good head start on fund raising, and his positions on several issues have resonated with not only liberals, but many moderates and even some republicans. However he is woefully short on experience, a fact that will surely be focused on as the debates move forward. Time Opinion Leaders, do you think Barack Obama has a fighting chance at a nomination over the likes of Hillary Clinton and John Edwards? For that matter, do you think he could take a real shot at the Presidency? Everyone has an opinion, and we want to hear yours.............................

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Why are we talking about a presidential canidate three months after a mid term election. Do we not have some issues that should be debated and the congress and the current administration have to act on before the primarys occur. We have become a totalally political election cycle and no business that the country needs is being conducted. Debate or have a pool on the date that the budgets for all government departments will be approved for the 2007 fiscal year that is now 1/3 over and we have only passed a minimun wage law. How many budget bills are not yet passed. Who is holding them up and why. Has the school budget been passed for 2007? Have all the new office moves been completed?
KLC you have got to have a better subject.

Been out 5 hours and i am the only poster. Must be a bad subject.

I am just waiting for the fur to start flying. I really expected the ultra conservatives to be all over this.

I am with tk.............Please do another topic. Say maybe why saving frozen embryos was more important than saving actual living people in Louisiana.

tk says, "Why are we talking about a presidential canidate three months after a mid term election."
Damn good question tk, an awful lot can happen in two years. At this point , who cares. Its a non issue. the press is fascinated by this guy who I repeat, is the most liberal of all the Senators.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2006/Info/senator-ratings.html

Obama was elected by the voters in Illinois to serve 6 years in the senate and this is what he should be concentrating on. He is a bright fellow, but not ready for prime time. I am afraid the Republicans will "eat" him alive, much worse than what they did to Harold Ford of Tennessee. I am impressed by his intelligence, but remaining in the senate will provide him an opportunity to grow, to learn, and to become more introspective in the next four years. He's a young man and has plenty of time to pursue the White House if he is truly serious and not merely hyped up by the "high fives" and pats on the back.

Gee tk, haven't you heard. The Iowa Caucuses are only about 13 months away. That means for the next baker’s dozen of months I’ll get to see every Tom, Dick and Harry who is egocentric or self-deluded enough to think that they have a chance at the White House.

Just another thing to blame on Jimmy Carter. Far too many of ‘em think that if he did it then maybe they can too. At least Jimmy had Billy around for comic relief.

On Obama, I just don’t know. Does he have a shot? Yeah, he does.

He’s going to have a home field advantage for the Iowa Caususes and he’s from Illinois, one of the Elite 11 (the group of states that can elect a president on their own). This will give him an early boost over the herd that’s going to emerge over the next year.

When you read the man’s bio it’s the epitome of the American Dream. The self made man rising from a broken home of a racially mixed couple. But was he all that handicapped by it and was he even all that middle class as many pundits describe his mother’s family? At age 10 he was living with his grandparents going to school in Hawaii at an elite prep school.

This is what bothers me the most about the man. You have to read between the lines on just about everything that is written about him. Anyone who can step back and take an objective view of the guy can see he is and has been groomed for bigger things. You don’t get to deliver the Keynote Address at a party’s convention unless they think you are a rising star. You don’t get the heavy hitters to staff your Senate office from day one as he did. You don’t start a leadership political action committee such as his Hopefund (which was one of the largest donors for federal candidates during the midterms) in your freshman year as a senator.

When he ran for the Senate his biggest challenger in the primary took a huge hit in the polls after allegations of domestic abuse surfaced making Obama the front runner in a large field. After winning the primary his republican opponents divorce records were made public causing him to drop out of the race less than three months before the election. I just don’t know if anyone can be that lucky to have opponents so easily self destruct like that.

Being right on the border ( I actually work in Illinois) I get a front row seat to everything the man does, what the national news doesn’t pick up our local news will. What I’ve begun to notice in his various outings is the man is a chamaeleon, changing his colors to match what ever group he is talking too. Now this isn’t anything new among politicians, but for someone who is suppose to be a breath of fresh air it is depressingly all too familiar.

My dear old dad used to tell me, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

Obama has no chance.

He looks like a nice enough guy, and anybody will be an improvement over Dubya.

Regardless, if he were not black, nobody would give a spit about anything a freshman senator from Illinois had to say.

Actually, his rise to power is almost Nicolae Carpathia-like in its intensity. But he won't even make it to number 2. That spot is going to Evan Bayh.

NOPE !

And for those not keeping score, Hillary wins the nomination and eventually the Presidency in 2008

Say maybe why saving frozen embryos was more important than saving actual living people in Louisiana.
Posted by: TerrylT on Jan 17, 07 | 9:39 pm

Easy, the embryos might actually amount to something...

This thread will certainly be longer than Dumbo Obama’s actual accomplishments.

Can anyone think of any of them?

Posted by: zombeese on Jan 17, 07 | 11:55 pm

45% of Democrats do not want Hillary... so I wouldn't be measuring the drapes quite yet.

If Obama Oh Momma thinks he's POTUS material when he starts going into therapeutic angst over a joke about his ears, then he's even stupider than he looks. I can't think of one POTUS in history who would deign to waste his time crying in public over having a physical feature mocked in the press - not even the wheelchair bound FDR or the butt-ugly Lincoln. They were all too big for that kind of crap - even that dumbass Jimmy Carter knew better than that. That's what people do to powerful people in this country: they mock them, relentlessly.

Perhaps Obama is more suited for dictatorship over some banana republic where he can don some tin-pot military helmet, tuck his floppy dumbo ears underneath it and then kill the entire families of people who make fun of him.

Hey Obama, your africaness is leaking out. Are you gonna start cappin' anybody who "disses" you?

What an F'in crybaby loser. What's he gonna do the first time someone mocks him over his painted lips or his stupid lookin' grin?

Sneauxman, I get the impression you don't like Obama, of course, after your opinions previously posted, you're not into Blacks anyway. There are a couple more people like you that slip up from time to time, so you should feel right at home.
I posted a while back on Obama's body english, which is something most people didn't catch and I find a little phony, but your snide remarks are a little over the edge.

Is this the second time Borat Obama has announced his candidacy ?

Did he "formerly" announce or has he formally announced ? ;^)

Is paul editing these topic intros ?


I have to agree with rsuddeth3, zombeese, and shutterhunter, except for his belief that Borat stands a chance.

Not much else to say about the man............yet.

he didn't announce his candidacy, he announced that he's exploring the possibility of him running for president.

Secondly, he brings a lot to the table, most notably, his aggressive bi-partisanship, especially with John McCain. Of course, the GOP takes all the credit for the product, but he's still there, reaching across the aisle. However, he was elected two years ago, and he's too young. Give him another term in the senate to build up contacts and get a knowledge of the system. Not even JFK wanted to run for president after only 1 term, not to mention Obama's 2/3s of a term. I think there's genuine POTUS potential in Obama, but he should wait until '12 or '16 until he runs. Of course, then he's going to run into Deval Patrick as a competitor.

Sneauxman - do you remember that one time that Bush got mocked by the media and he responded that there should be limits to what people can say about the President? And then the USAPATRIOT Act? How about the secret CIA prisons? I think you're pointing your finger at the wrong would-be dictator.

Secondly, he brings a lot to the table, most notably, his aggressive bi-partisanship, especially with John McCain.
Posted by: jurgenwigg on Jan 18, 07 | 12:15 pm

So what has he accomplished? You still cannot name one thing except how you FEEL about him.

Lets do a google search, hmm?

Obama has sponsored 152 bills since being in congress, among those, he took an active role in improving border security and immigration reform, co-sposored S. 2611, the "secure america and orderly immigration act" with McCain, as well as the "Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act" with Allen. Supported several initiatives with Sen. Lugar and Coburn, as well as the Secure Fence Act. With names like the "Lugar-Obama cooperative threat reduction" and "Coburn-Obama Transparency Act", you'd have to be an idiot not to realize how proactive Obama has been in the senate. Oh wait...

I mean really, unpoor, is that all you can come up with? That you're so ignorant and removed that you can't name stuff that Obama did? Then do a quick google search on him, i promise, it could not be easier. Even you could do it and not sound like a blundering neanderthal.

Very short list... so that in your opinion that thin resume gives him the skills sets to be President? HAHAHAHAHA.

Well we all know you have been drinking the Kool-aid this morning.

Posted by: wintersoldier on Jan 18, 07 | 3:31 am

Sorry Winter, I needed to be clearer, I specifically don't like 'liberal blacks' and their culture that is bent on socialism and how they are destroying the inner cities of America, In fact, I don't really care for liberals whatever color they happen to be.

You know, it seems to me that no one is pointing out that the two frontrunners for the Dmocratic nomination for President are both from Chicago. Hilary was born and raised in the north suburbs while Obama has resided there as an adult.

This is why all the people who are surprised that Obama would publicly support the Bears in Sunday's NFC Championship game are, I think, missing the point. It's not that he might alienate New Orleans voters; it's that he needs the Chicago vote! If it really comes down to Hilary vs. Obama, the nominee will be the winner of the Illinois primary.

And that's what gives Obama an advantage. He is on record supporting the Chicago pro teams. Hilary is on photographic record as donning a New York Yankees cap when she moved to the Empire State and tried to convince everyone she was a long time New Yorker.

As a man born in Chicago, let me assure you that someone born in our municipality putting on a Yankees cap goes over about as well as urinating on the floor in front of "American Gothic" at the Art Institute. Don't be surprised if along the way the Obama folks find subtle ways to remind Chicagoans about Hilary being a traitor and touting Big Apple clubs.

Unpoor, if you had read jurgenwigg's post a little more carefully, you would have noted that he also said :
"Give him another term in the senate to build up contacts and get a knowledge of the system. Not even JFK wanted to run for president after only 1 term, not to mention Obama's 2/3s of a term. I think there's genuine POTUS potential in Obama, but he should wait until '12 or '16 until he runs."

Most of us will freely concede that Obama is still very "green". He has however shown great potential for being able to accomplish things in his short career and outstanding communication skills in dealing with people, which are sorely needed not only within the senate but with
the constituents and within the international community as well.

Speaking of credentials......what qualifications did your man Bush possess to make him worthy of seeking the presidency? Oh Yeah, there was:

1.arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol
2.joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL.
3.ran for U.S. Congress and lost
4.changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union
5.bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas. (the company went bankrupt shortly after he sold all his stock and got his money out.)
6.bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money
7.With the help of his father and
friends in the oil industry, including Enron CEO Ken Lay, heI was elected Governor of Texas.
8.cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money
9.set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history.

And lets not even get started on that, shall we?

Missing sentence before end of last last post.......was supposed to read How about his "accomplishments" in the oval office?

AS usual, another lame topic from TIME. Why should there even be so much concern about a man who hasn't even announced his intentions yet? The playing field is wide open.

Reading the comments about Mr Obama reminds me of another your American....Mr Julian Bond.

Years ago, he was touted as the individual who had the possibility of becoming the first "Black" President of the US.

Before too long every thing this man had ever done became front page news. His past was dug up, his inexperience was screamed across the land.

Before too long this intelligent young man was the "scrub of the earth" and to date, IMO, has not recovered.

I hope the same fate does not befall Mr Obama.

I ask a question I asked earlier: Is this country is too racist to accept a Black president and to sexist to accept a female president?

From some of the comments here, I would sugges "yes" to both parts of the question.

shutter says, "What I’ve begun to notice in his various outings is the man is a chameleon, changing his colors to match what ever group he is talking too."

But his voting record doesnt lie, it tells us that he is an ultra liberal. More liberal than Hillary or Teddy. Being a good speaker and being able to deceive and manipulate people by matching whatever group you are talking to, hardly qualifies you to be president, or anything else. IMHO.

Big dog, no the U.S. is not too racist or too sexist to accept a black president or a female one. But why should we accept someone who is a totally inexperienced master of manipulation, or one who accepted a barely disguised bribe of $100,000 as a shrewd "commodities investor," and who sticks by her woman abusing husband so as not to lose her power. Aren't there better choices than these? I certainly hope so.

We can agree to disagree.

However, events leading up and including the first Tuesday in November 2008 will tell...

Agreed bigdog! The stupid comments about his ears and his lips attest to that fact.

Besides, has everyone forgotten that he is just as much white as he is black?! The man is BI-racial, people! You are all so eager to find a little box with the appropriate labels to attach. You people can't decide whether he's a liberal champion of the poor......or an elitist snob. Whether he's black or white.Whether he's a "bright fellow" or he's "stupider than he looks". Whether he's a truly concerned citizen or a phony with slick communication skills.

The truth is, that he is Both black and white. That he was raised in a middle class environment like most of the rest of us. He has intelligence, decency, poise and the ability to articulate a vision. He has a broad background of life experiences both in the US and abroad.

My guess is that you're all somewhat afraid of his wide appeal and what that means for his chances of pulling this off. You would rather have someone much easier to beat up on as your opponent.

It's politics, folks. He's going to get his name and face in front of a lot of people so that he has a head start on a later and serious try at the nomination. He also gets some experience in the party wars.

If Hillary sprouts wings she will not get the nomination - too much baggage.

ACE a blank slate for a record could really be a plus! He hasn't been out there long enough to make the mistakes.

SO Sneaux - gotta wonder about your features that you are so over-reacting to someone else's. Me think thou dost protest too much.... So do you have a schnoz that gets thru the door before you do? An @$$ that comes in a yard or too later? Solar collector? Must be a humdinger for you to go off on a total stranger with such vitriol! Very interesting to see that you are defing a man's qualifications for the presidency by his ears. OR is it pure RACISM?

ACE a blank slate for a record could really be a plus! He hasn't been out there long enough to make the mistakes.
Posted by: WldFlwr on Jan 18, 07 | 4:18 pm


Remember the last blank slate we tried, Carter?

We do complain.

That doesn't mean that we want to hand the keys to the kingdom to the first johnny-come-lately . . . I'd rather see an experienced industrialist (ghasp - someone from the PRIVATE sector that hates taxes and oppressive governmental regulation) enter than a never-was politician.

When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced and his father returned to Kenya. His mother married Lolo Soetoro, a Muslim as well, moving to Jakarta with young Obama, when he was six years old.

Within six months he had learned to speak the Indonesian language Obama spent "two years in a Muslim school, then two more in a Catholic school" in Jakarta.

Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim. Mitigating that information, by saying that for two years, he attended a Catholic school.

Obama's father, Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. was a radical Muslim who migrated from Kenya to Jakarta, Indonesia. He met Obama's mother, Ann Dunham—at the University of Hawaii at Manoa.

Obama's spin- meisters are now attempting to make it appear that Obama's introduction to Islam, came from his father and that influence was only temporary, which is true. Obama Sr. returned to Kenya immediately following the divorce and never again had any direct influence over his son's education. But,

Lolo Soetoro, Ann Dunham's second husband, educated his stepson Barack Hussein Obama, as a good Muslim by enrolling him in one of Jakarta's Wahabbi schools.

Wahabbism is the radical teaching that created the Muslim terrorists, who are now waging Jihad on the industrialized world. Since it is politically expedient to be a Christian when you are seeking political office in the United States, Obama joined the United Church of Christ, to help purge any notion that he is still a Muslim.

I'd like to see Obama himself deny the accusations. On second thought, I really don't give a hoot; Hillary and Bill will bury him when the time is right; and then blame the expose on another candidate that threatens the Beast.

Interesting though how the Black establishment hasn't jumped on his bandwagon. Has Jesse Jackson endorsed him? What about Sharpton? Any of the Black Congressional Caucus? How about the NAACP?

If they don't support him I doubt anyone else will.

One thing our next President might do is to reverse the current nonsense about a constant Presidential Campaign. This business is irritating and necessary only for the liberals who infest the Drive-By Media to focus on the temporary nature of a Republican President. Further, this business about a Democratic Response to absolutely everything the President says should be stopped. Our President IS the President as well as the Commander In Chief and members of congress are NOT. The more the Democrats in congress keep pushing idotic and downright destructiive initiatives, the more clearly they reveal themselves to be venal, traitorous and idiotic.

Who cares about Senator Obama? Give us a break, for pete's sake!

BOBBYGEE Please do not confuse us with facts. 'Sir Borat' is a Brit, doesn't "qualify". And NO, Obama has not announced before. In fact, he has not announced now. He is "exploring the possibility" - that is not announcing anything at all. It's hard to believe anyone jumped on this!
Must be a s-l-o-w day at KLC....

JURG "his aggressive bi-partisanship" THIS is his greatest strength because we are just sick of partisan politics. Seems to me you are suggesting that the CIA is imprisoning people who have unhealthy opinions toward the presidency. Well you should be a fine addition to the bins on both sides here. Both will welcome you while they try to figure out which wing you flew in on.

Ah but Jurg you know how to use Google and that puts you in the 5 percentile while the rest sputter around wondering what a google is and where to find one.

If blundering neanderthals annoy you
then you have come to the wrong blog! We cherish our neanderthals here and defend them from caustic outsiders who come here to attack them on some ego venture looking to puff themselves up.

GOOD SHOT UNPOOR!

On candidates from Chicago - at least they are not from the coasts. But the real test will be in the pigpens of Iowa!

BIGDOG - "Is this country too racist to accept a Black president and to sexist to accept a female president?"

yes.

RICH Obama is representing his constituents. They are more liberal than Hillary and Teddy. His JOB is to represent them. They pay him to represent them.

COLORME " My guess is that you're all somewhat afraid of his wide appeal and what that means for his chances of pulling this off."

Quite right! And when I pointed this out on a previous thread I was suddenly a devotee, enamored, he being my "boy", it was stated by one blogger that I would vote for him due to my physical attraction to him. It was hysterically funny the panic these guys went into over the suggestion that this candidate could hold some considerable sway with the voters in 2008. They are so intimidated by this man! They were turning it into a sad testosterone contest. Where's a pool table when you need one?

ZAPPA Carter was a governor. List the governors who have become presidents and think about it a minute.....I won't vote to put another governor in the White House.

JFAIR Christian schools take nonchristian children in as students and that includes the Catholic schools taking Protestant kids. They take whoever pays the tuition. I sent my Catholic children to a very fundamentalist Protestant school for a few years. I had to unteach some doctrines that were off-the-mark but they learned math and science and social studies and spelling just fine. POINT - attending a private religious based school DOES NOT make the kids whatever the religion is that supports the school. So Muslim schools can have non-muslim students. DOESN'T MEAN A THING!

So JFAIR unless you want to say being muslim is genetic....you don't really have a valid point.

and then look at all those kids who went to the local Lutheran schools and Catholic schools and turned out to be the worst delinquent party-animals in the community! We all know who they are!

I don't think Bill and Hillary are going to be throwing any stones at Obama for not following this religion or that given their track records as upstanding Christians! They will take the Christian path and not judge anyone! They will keep religion out of it.

RED Obama isn't black enough for the blacks and he isn't white enough for the whites.

DARRYL "Who cares about Senator Obama? Give us a break, for pete's sake!"

You make a good point! The country has some actual problems so anyone in congress who steps down to wallow in this will be stepping right out of serious contention.

So Muslim schools can have non-muslim students. DOESN'T MEAN A THING!
Posted by: WldFlwr on Jan 18, 07 | 5:34 pm

Do you really think radical Muslims will let their kids be Christian?

......Think about it.

We cherish our neanderthals here and defend them from caustic outsiders who come here to attack them on some ego venture looking to puff themselves up.

Posted by: WldFlwr on Jan 18, 07 | 5:05 pm

You have to talking about Rich...lol

JFAIR we were discussing Obama who is no longer anybody's kid. He was not raised by radical muslim parents nor is he raising his kids to be muslim.

"You have to talking about Rich..."

Wrong again JFAIR. Your second guessing record isn't any better than his! LOL

Wrong again JFAIR. Your second guessing record isn't any better than his! LOL
Posted by: WldFlwr on Jan 18, 07 | 5:59 pm

oh well... dull topic anyway. back to the poker sites.

If Obama was born muslim and spent some time as a muslim. It is important. If elected president he will not be able to travel to muslim countries because he has said he has become a christian and they will have to kill him. We can not allow our president being killed because he has joined the infidels. Or it could be the opposite. He may appoint all muslims to his staff and after swearing in put his rag hat on and then you will see what a dictator is really like. I Can see the air cav attacking the white house. Who wants to be the first infidells to be killed. Take your pick of the above choises.
He has his first general in the house at this time. I m scared and i am fearless just

tkearns,

Was Obama born a muslim?

If he was born a muslim and became christian, then in some future time, should he re-affirm his muslim faith he would be a "born-again" muslim.

As dangerious a person as a born-again christian!

Actually, tkearns, we should all make a real effort to avoid such "iffy" things, especially when they are easily verifiable!

Sp JFAIR what do you do on a poker site? Play or watch? They have replaced the middle of the night infomercials with poker after dark - interesting to watch....although not exactly what you could call action packed thrill a minute stuff. They have to put up $20,000 to get in the game. Amazing stuff, having that sort of cash to play with.

OK TKEARNS ONE MORE TIME BUT JUST FOR YOU:

"Barack Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. of Alego, a village in Nyanza Province, Kenya, and Ann Dunham of Wichita, Kansas. His parents met while both were attending the East-West Center of the University of Hawaii at Manoa, where his father was enrolled as a foreign student.

When Obama was two years old, his parents separated and later divorced; his father went to Harvard to pursue PhD studies, eventually returning to Kenya.

Several years later his mother married Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian foreign student, moving to Jakarta with Obama when he was six years old.

Four years later, Obama returned to Hawaii to live with his maternal grandparents. He was enrolled in the fifth grade at Punahou School, a large, private college preparatory school in Honolulu, which he attended through 12th grade, graduating in 1979.

In his 1995 memoir, Dreams from My Father, Obama describes his experiences growing up in his mother's white American middle class family. His knowledge about his absent black Kenyan father came mainly through family stories and photographs."

FOR HEAVENS SAKE PUT ASIDE THE FREAKOUT! He is no more muslim than you are! His mother's family was from KANSAS! Not exactly a hotbed of Islam. He didn't "become" a Christian. He was born and raised a Christian. How silly can you get????

AND THEN -

"After high school, Obama studied for two years at Occidental College in California and then transferred to Columbia College in New York City, where he majored in political science with a specialization in international relations. After receiving his Bachelors of Arts degree in 1983, Obama worked for one year at Business International Corporation. In 1985, he moved to Chicago to direct a non-profit project assisting local churches to organize job training programs for residents of poor neighborhoods.

Obama entered Harvard Law School in 1988. In February 1990, he gained national recognition for becoming the first African American to be elected president of the Harvard Law Review. He obtained his Juris Doctor degree magna cum laude from Harvard in 1991. On returning to Chicago, Obama directed a voter registration drive, then worked for the civil rights law firm Miner, Barnhill & Galland, and taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1993 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004."

Oh my goodness another American Ivy-Leaguer. That makes him as dangerous as MtMan!

AND HERE IS HIS RELIGION:

The United Church of Christ (UCC) is a mainline Protestant Christian denomination principally in the United States, generally considered within the Reformed tradition, and formed in 1957 by the union of two denominations, the Evangelical and Reformed Church and the Congregational Christian Churches.
According to the 2006 yearbook, the United Church of Christ has approximately 1.2 million members and is composed of approximately 5,633 local congregations. Although similar in name, the UCC denomination is theologically, historically, and culturally distinct from the Churches of Christ, a loose affiliation of conservative congregations that arose primarily from the Restorationist movements taking place in the Southeastern U.S. in the 19th century.


The Obamas are members of Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ. Of his religious affiliation, Obama has written:

"I was drawn to the power of the African American religious tradition to spur social change. In the history of these struggles, I was able to see faith as more than just a comfort to the weary or a hedge against death; rather, it was an active, palpable agent in the world. It was because of these newfound understandings–that religious commitment did not require me to suspend critical thinking, disengage from the battle for economic and social justice, or otherwise retreat from the world that I knew and loved–that I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity United Church of Christ one day and be baptized. It came about as a choice and not an epiphany; the questions I had did not magically disappear. But kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side of Chicago, I felt God's spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, and dedicated myself to discovering His truth."


So you see, TKearns, Barack Obama knelt before the cross of Jesus Christ and was baptized making the same commitment to God's Spirit that you and I did at our Confirmations.

The Air CAV will not be attacking the White House unless the Pentagon declares war on Jesus Christ. Then all of us can head for cover.

Bear in mind a good share of our fellow bloggers would be very happy to see that happen! You should be far more afraid of THEM!

I find it really hard to believe that this body of bloggers with the experience and education and modicum of internet experience are going off on this panic-driven rampage of idiocy! This is, of course, the evidence of "holy week" - how the very same people who lauded the coming of the king stood a scant week later screaming for his execution!

Perhaps we should all be afraid - of ourselves!

Still claiming that you are not carrying water for this guy wld? Sure sounds like it to me. There is a near hysterical tone to your posts.

Did he in fact attend a Wahabbi Muslim school for 2 years in Indonesia? If so, that is a big factor, they like to kill infidels and that would make me really nervous. Otherwise, he has a fairly ordinary background, and it seems to me he's simply too inexperienced to be president.

Posted by: WldFlwr on Jan 18, 07 | 8:10 pm

Lolo Soetoro, Ann Dunham's second husband, educated his stepson Barack Hussein Obama, as a good Muslim by enrolling him in one of Jakarta's Wahabbi schools.

you are so right rich....

Columnist Says Barack Obama 'Lied To The American People;'
Asks Publisher to Withdraw Obama's Book
Tuesday August 10, 9:22 pm ET


NEW YORK, Aug. 10 /PRNewswire/ -- Out2.com's independent contrarian columnist, Andy Martin, will publish a column and hold simultaneous news conferences in New York and London on Wednesday, August 11th to disclose he believes Barack Obama is a political fraud who "lied to the American people." Martin has asked Crown Books to stop sales of Obama's book because of its fraudulent content. Martin says Obama may be a threat to the Jewish community.

"I feel sad having to expose Barack Obama," says Martin, "but the man is a complete fraud. The truth is going to surprise, and disappoint, and outrage many people who were drawn to him. He has lied to the American people, and he has sought to misrepresent his own heritage.


"Obama's life story is vastly different from the one he portrays. My point: if he will lie about his mother and father, what else is he lying about? Can we expect 'bimbo eruptions?'



"Fiction: Obama stated in his Convention speech: 'My father ... grew up herding goats.' The 'goat herder' claim has been repeated endlessly. It is a lie. Fact: Obama's grandfather, Hussein Onyango Obama was a prominent and wealthy farmer. His son, Obama's father, was a child of privilege, not privation. He was an outstanding student, not a herdsman.



"Fiction: Obama was given an 'African' name. Fact: Obama is a Muslim who has concealed his religion. I am a strong supporter of the Muslim community, and I believe Muslims have been scapegoated. Obama has a great opportunity to be forthright. Instead, he has treated his Muslim heritage as a dark secret. His grandfather was named 'Hussein.' That is an Arabic-Muslim, not African, name. Hussein was a devout Muslim and named his son, Barack Senior, 'Baraka.' Baraka is an Arabic word meaning 'blessed.' Baraka comes out of the Koran and Arabic, not Africa.



"Barack Senior was also a devoted Muslim, and also chose a Muslim name for his son, our own Barack Obama, Junior. Again, his name was an Arabic and Koranic.



Obama has spent a lifetime running from his family heritage and religious heritage. Would his father have given his son a Koranic name if the father was not a devout Muslim? Obama's stepfather was also a Muslim. Obama will be the first Muslim-heritage senator; he should be proud of that fact. There is nothing to be ashamed of in any of the three great Abrahamic religions.



"Fiction: Obama Senior was a harmless student 'immigrant' who came to the United States only to study. Fact: Obama was part of one of the most corrupt and violent organizations in Africa: the Kenyatta regime. Obama's father ran back to Kenya soon after the British left. It is likely Obama's father had Mau Mau sympathies or connections, or he would not have been welcomed into the murderous inner circle of rapists, murderers, and arsonists. I believe Obama's secret shame at his family history of rape, murder and arson is what actualizes him. Our research is not yet complete. We are seeking to examine British colonial records. Our investigation to date has drawn on information on three continents.



"And what about Obama's beloved Kenyan brothers and sisters? None of his family was invited to Boston to share his prominence. Are his relatives being kept in the closet? Where are they? More secrecy, more prevarication.



"It is time for Barack Obama to stop presenting a fantasy to the American people. We are forgiving and many would still support him. It may well be that his concealment is meant to endanger Israel. His Muslim religion would obviously raise serious questions in many Jewish circles where Obama now enjoys support," Martin states.



"Our investigation is continuing. In he meantime, Crown Books should stop selling Obama's novelization of his life. We have asked Crown to do that. Obama is living a lie."



RESOURCES: Martin's columns at Out2.com (Govt & Politics); E-mail: andy@andymartin.com



Source: Andy Martin Worldwide Communications

Posted by: tkearns on Jan 18, 07 | 6:46 pm


TK: You are closer to the truth than perhaps you realize.

Sneauxman, just came back online, I understand where you are coming from now and forgive me for being an attack dog. Like Chris Rock said in one of his rants, us old Black guys are very sensitive when it comes to colors.
Ace, your post, IMHO was on target, but remember at one time, Jmo Kenyatta educated and indoctrinated by the USSR, was our enemy and when he beame president of Kenya, we accepted him as "our friend and ally" our nation's policy makers need to stand for one thing 360 degrees and stop trying to manipulate nations to our ends. Our "friends" today end up being our adversaties down the road. I am waiting with bated breath for the Time topic of China to be presented, as it was my project at the Sergeant's Major Academy in World studies. Our peripheral vision has narrowed so much that we are easily distracted from what is IMHO, going on, on the world stage. Be it terrorist, economical, or whatever, we are under attack from many angles, Muslim, mmunist, and whateve dissatisfied factions within and without that are envious of our way of life and use our system of free enterprise and the right of the oursuit of happiness against us.

"There is a near hysterical tone to your posts."

well now Rich that would be because laughter does not read well and the more you type the deeper you bury yourself and the funnier it gets!

All I did was post some bio info from wikipedia to dispell the hysteria over where he was born blah blah blah blah. I didn't write the bio, I didn't edit the bio. You poor thing. Some of YOUR buddies are pushing apoplexy already. You might want to stay nearby with the oxygen.

And all this over a noncandidate who may not ever make the ballot to even be a candidate. He has not announced anything more than the formation of a committee. God help you if he actually decides to run for office!

As for his bio. It will no doubt be revised repeatedly until nobody recognizes the thing.

"Otherwise, he has a fairly ordinary background,"

That is pretty much what the bio indicates. Absolutely nothing to get excited about.

Considering he lived with the stepfather between the ages of 6 and 10 I doubt too much damage was done. Anybody know any 7, 8 and 9 year olds? They aren't really into the geopolitical scene. They like dinosaurs a lot.

This subject is going to bring out the genuine lunatics here. We are off to a rip-snortin' start don't you think Rich?

So Rich are you worried about someone who went to some school when he was 8 and learned you are an infidel coming after you now that he is a Senator forty some years later? OR are you worried about the Islamofascists coming after him for leaving their ranks because they didn't want to play with the dinosaurs?

wow Ace - how much do you remember of what you learned from ages 6-10?

very funny stuff Ace! There is a heap of money in Goats if you are a smart farmer! And since his father was an absent father what possible difference does it make who had how much money behind them or how they made it?

WHY would anyone feel sad exposing such an out and out liar? The guy should be rejoicing at the opportunity to get the truth out!

How is naming successive generations of sons with muslim names hiding the heritage?

Every politician who ever took a breath has lied to the American people. We expect it.

Seems to me that every woman in America who has been thru a divorce just got a slap in the face by your writer, Ace. Every child has TWO parents, a dual Heritage! WHY should every child take on the father's heritage? Particularly a father who was absent?

There is nothing dishonest in assuming the heritage of one's MOTHER! In fact it would be a real insult to his mother's family to play on the father's name and 'heritage' in this case. To do so for political gain would be particuarly disgusting.

"Our research is not yet complete."

OH NOW ISN'T THAT SPECIAL! So let's just make things up as we go. Let's just use conjecture and guesswork and what's likely. That will play so much better than boring facts we might uncover. Oh horrors! What if nothing "good" turns up?

And don't count on any American publisher to stop the presses because some politician might have told a fib!

The beloved Kenyan family. hmmm I raised some kids with an absent father. Not a bad guy, just not there. He wasn't there for graduations, he wasn't there for weddings, he wasn't there for the grandkids being born. No horrific scandal, he is just living his own life with a trophy wife and a new family. THAT IS THE AMERICAN WAY, hardly a cause for scandal!

"It may well be that his concealment is meant to endanger Israel."

OH MY GOODNESS! and just as likely it may NOT be meant to endanger Israel. Guess I should call up my Ex and ask his position on Israel! Maybe he plans to endanger them along with Obama! Afterall, the research isn't complete yet......

"Obama is living a lie."

And HOW do we know this when our Investigation is Continuing?

ACE this is about the silliest thing I have ever seen on this blog, right next to Perry posts! It's absolute comedy!

At least TK was sincere and not trying to make a buck like your Andy Martin. How could you live a whole lifetime of American politics and NOT KNOW THE GAMES POLITICIANS PLAY? and the publishers who love them for it?

please, all, pardon the misspellings. again, fast fingers.

Well Andy Martin has a lifetime of work ahead of him if he plans to keep taking on the Daley political machine. Yep, they're crooks. Always have been but they manage to stay just within the edge so they can't quite be taken out. Trying to take on Obama at the same time might be a bit more than anyone can chew at the same time! He is going to have to focus so he doesn't run too thin!

I ran across one of them in Colorado Springs, tried to come in and reorganize Colorado in the image of the Daley Machine. I ignored him and got the highest turnout ever seen in my precinct. There were a lot of surprises all around! For example, our 95% minority precinct voted 98% FOR ENGLISH ONLY. okay. surprise! COLORADO VOTERS THINK when given the opportunity. That is one thing I miss about home.

WINTER "IMHO was on target,"

just bear in mine the writer himself admitted his research isn't completed, his investigation is continuing. That's a dandy excuse to write whatever you want.

Mr. Martin is on the "right side" if he is tackling the Daley machine but he sure has some downright shakey precepts! He needs something that makes a lot more sense than his innuendos. I do not see anything in this essay that means anything specific.

We have plenty of actual avowed enemies with which to contend. We don't need a Mr. Martin spending his time on one guy who may or may not run for office.

So it is just as likely he is completely off base.

WINTER I finally read a reasonable explanation of why General Petreus had such success in his first Iraqi tour i.e. Mosul, the one son-in-law particpated in. Greg came back feeling the whole thing IS worthwhile, worth every effort, that the Iraqi people are positive and proactive and eager to succeed. They WERE met as heroes and welcomed where they went.

Then the rotation, enter the Strykers under a new commander with an occupation approach. They managed to undo everything the 101st had accomplished in short order. I read that to accomplish the same thing in Baghdad Petreus would need 120,000 men and 12 years.

Well let us pray because it will take nothing short of a miracle for General P. to pull it off under these conditions. But nothing is impossible!

As for Obama - far more likely he will be given a VP bid. He will pick up the minority votes and the younger generation votes. The top slot will go to a Boomer.

WldFlwr: Nothing is impossible for those who do not have to do it. Petraeus now has his 4th star and can safely accept failure without having to compromise ambition. Oops ! Nearly forgot C of S and CJCofS.

Interesting to note you have now relegated your political 'Messiah' to second fiddle.

Why do you see opposition to Obama,based on his relative inexperience in developing political, administrative and management skills as a "neanderthal" and racist reaction ?

I suppose the neanderthals are conservative Republicans and the racists are ultra-conservative Republicans ?

You accuse others of irrational judgement, yet you're as quick on the draw as the next guy/gal.

Well, that does it. I told my wife last week not to be surprised to learn that Obama is a closet Muslim. I think it has been kept at a distance for reasons other than mentioned in the article. I don't believe he is ashamed but rather is waiting for the right time to reveal it. Hopefully, the right time will not come.

I always wondered with his name why they said that guy from MN Ellison, was the first Muslim in Congress.

Is Osama Obama a Muslim Manchurian candidate? Looks like the US Wahhabi Muslims are making their move.

I always wondered with his name why they said that guy from MN Ellison, was the first Muslim in Congress.
Posted by: unpoor on Jan 19, 07 | 10:12 am

Excellent question.

I suppose because Obama supposedly belongs to a church in a minor branch of Chrisianity.

I think his religion according to wikipedia article, is United Church of Christ but if Islam means to infiltrate the West this is how they'd do it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barak_Obama

Posted by: WldFlwr on Jan 19, 07 | 1:46 am

I checked on Snopes, and their reasons for claiming the email was false is based almost exclusively on quotes from Obama's own books!

Give me a break!

I think in this case Snopes may be wrong because what radical muslim would let their son to convert to Christianity?

I don't think we have to worry about Osama Obama; the Clintonistas will make short work of him in a game of slice and dice; in fact, it wouldn't surprise me if it was they who started the email and biography circulating.

I see Hillary as the Tonya Harding of the political arena.

And I thought John Kerry was frightening. This scares the doo-doo out of me. I heard this story on Fox News this morning, and I believe several news reporters are now investigating this story. If it's true that Obama's father went to a Whabbist school, he should be out of politics.

Posted by: WldFlwr on Jan 19, 07 | 1:46 am

How convenient..... get the liar part out of the way right up front. The guy is a snake oil salesman, if there ever was one. From what I already know about him, it sounds like his entire life has been one of deception....i.e. the perfect Democratic candidate!

Posted by: wintersoldier on Jan 19, 07 | 1:46 am

Sorry again if I was misunderstood... I was trying to say some Blacks are not what they say they are, and they are not what we're told they are. If the population of blacks goes beyond a certain percentage in a city, then that city will have an out of control crime and violence problem. That is not racism; that is a fact. And it is just common decency to warn people about this danger to our safety and stop lying to them.

And some whites are not what they say they are either sneauxman. You for example.....denying your outright racism , trying to hide behind a cloak of phony "common decency". What a joke!

"If the population of blacks goes beyond a certain percentage in a city, then that city will have an out of control crime and violence problem."Posted by: Sneauxman


Substitute the words "poverty-stricken" for the word "black"........and THEN you will actually have a factual statement.

link,

I assume your comment:

"I suppose because Obama supposedly belongs to a church in a minor branch of Chrisianity."

refers to Obama's membership in the United Church of Christ.

The United Church of Christ is a.k.a the Congregational Church.

That's the church the Pilgrims brought to America.

A minor branch of Christianity?

No. It's the church that founded America!

Sneauxman, I understand to a degree your trepidation, but the crime thing is a vicious circle. I remember in Boston when we used to have walking patrolmen, when that ceased, and police started riding in cars, the disconnect between the police and the neighborhood was just about complete. The other example was tax dollars used to improve and maintain schools everywhere but in Roxbury. The schools were closed and the bussing began, Not a good thing for anyone. Stern, evenhanded justice has flown out the window and seems to be administered according to one's status in life's pecking order.
Should the percentage of Blacks reach a certain level that the crime rate rises, wouldn't that be a Clarion call to the cities to pay more attention to the problem instead of running away from it or always being on the alert ?
Possibly my military upbringing colors my view, because all of us have progressed miles ahead of the civilian communities. Yoou may have a private viewpoint, but if it doesn't conform to miltary policy, you had best keep it to yourself.

Amazing, just amazing......

Winter: I certianly agree with you on how the military has progressed ahead of civilian commuities. How do you think we reverse the trend? Or is it even possible. BD sitting there being amazed certainly isn't solving anything. I think everything Bill Cosby and Oprah have been saying about American blacks is correct and it is about time some black leaders stand up and start addressing the community issues.

poverty-stricken? Posted by: colormepurple on Jan 19, 07 | 12:12 pm

Plasma TVs, Microwaves, gold grills for their teeth, Caddys, $500 tennis shoes extremely bad grammer...

...are all the ear marks of poverty in the US.

I feel their pain, their poverty reminds me of those suffering in Darfur...

Problem is, contemporary Americans--specifically, those of the younger demographic, 17-34--don't necessarily know when they're being lied to, and millions of black Americans themselves don't care if they're being lied to. Lying among blacks has become commonplace, and they happily use lies frequently in order to gain a competitive edge over each other and everyone else.

Obama is being touted as a candidate by Democrats simply in order to enhance Hillary's image. In the end, she'll destroy this man with the intention of convincing us that she saved us "...from a fate worse than death." Sadly, rightly believing she's the better choice of the two, millions of Americans--perhaps even fearful conservatives--will vote for her.

There is so much information and disinformation floating around out there and it's blossoming.

Sooner or later it's going to have to come to a head and Obama has to speak up. If he doesn't; then we can assume the "rumors" are true.

If he has nothing to hide then he has nothing to fear.

I think Mitt Romney has already spoken about his being a Mormon; I see no difference in Obama stepping up to the podium where he will either tell the truth or be made a liar.

Sp JFAIR what do you do on a poker site? Play or watch? Posted by: WldFlwr on Jan 18, 07 | 8:10 pm

wildflower, I play either here with freinds and family or on the net... here is a good site to start with if you or you husband are interested. It is free.

http://www.fulltiltpoker.net/

It is sort of addicting and when you have an Ace on the board while holding pocket Aces...and going all in and then being called!!!!....well, it is as exciting as sex... almost. If you go there let me know... or you can find me there by my yahoo name.

LOL So I give up who is the Neanderthal?

Obama is a stooge, Hillary played the game artfully. Obama's candidacy sucks the life out of all the contenders leaving only Hillary and Barack Obama. Why did the MSM swoon over Obama? He had no track record, nothing to criticize thus he didn't have the baggage that John Kerry, Edwards and the rest of the lib Dems. At the right time, Hillary pops the balloon on Obama's candidacy, hence the truth comes out about his fabrications.

This whole fact checking exercise will play out for months but long enough to leave Hillary the undesputed leader of the Dem Party. Of course, the conservatives are also chomping at the bit to gut this MSM wonder thus being used unwittingly to do the bidding of Hillary.

Barack Hussein Obama: Once a Muslim, Always A Muslim
Printer Friendly
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2006/12/barack_hussein.html
By Debbie Schlussel

Many months ago, readers began asking me whether Barack Obama is Muslim. Since he identifies as a Christian, I said, "no," and responded that he was not raised by his Kenyan father.

But, then, I decided to look further into Obama's background. His full name--as by now you have probably heard--is Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. Hussein is a Muslim name, which comes from the name of Ali's son--Hussein Ibn Ali. And Obama is named after his late Kenyan father, the late Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., apparently a Muslim.

And while Obama may not identify as a Muslim, that's not how the Arab and Muslim Streets see it. In Arab culture and under Islamic law, if your father is a Muslim, so are you. And once a Muslim, always a Muslim. You cannot go back. In Islamic eyes, Obama is certainly a Muslim. He may think he's a Christian, but they do not.


Then, there are the other items in his background. As best-selling author Scott Turow wrote in Salon, Obama went to a Muslim school for two years in Indonesia. His mother, Anna, married an Indonesian man (likely another Muslim, as Indonesia is Muslim-dominated and has the largest Islamic population in the world).

And Obama has a "born-again" affinity for the nation of his Muslim father, Kenya, and his Kenyan sister. (Although Kenya is largely Christian, it has a fast-growing Muslim population that has engaged in a good deal of religious violence and riots against Christians. And Kenyan courts will apply Sharia law, when the participants are Muslim.) Wrote Turow:

Obama's father died in a traffic accident in Nairobi in 1982, but while Obama was working in Chicago, he met his Kenyan sister, Auma, a linguist educated in Germany who was visiting the United States. When she returned to Kenya in 1986 to teach for a year at the University of Nairobi, Obama finally made the trip to his father's homeland he had long promised himself. There, he managed to fully embrace a heritage and a family he'd never fully known and come to terms with his father, whom he'd long regarded as an august foreign prince, but now realized was a human being burdened by his own illusions and vulnerabilities.
So, even if he identifies strongly as a Christian, and even if he despised the behavior of his father (as Obama said on Oprah); is a man who Muslims think is a Muslim, who feels some sort of psychological need to prove himself to his absent Muslim father, and who is now moving in the direction of his father's heritage, a man we want as President when we are fighting the war of our lives against Islam? Where will his loyalties be?

Is that even the man we'd want to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency, if Hillary Clinton offers him the Vice Presidential candidacy on her ticket (which he certainly wouldn't turn down)?

NO WAY, JOSE . . . Or, is that, HUSSEIN?

Posted by Debbie at December 18, 2006 04:01 PM

Trackback Pings
TrackBack URL for this entry:
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Wildflower & Rich:

More from the site:

Barack Obama was originally named “Baraka.” It is not an African name. It's an Arabic word meaning “blessed” and comes directly from the Koran.

BTW, Obama lied about his father's religious denomination during the DNC Convention in 2004. He said his father was a non-practicing Christian. Let's see how the LIBERAL media uncovers this lie, as well. Don't hold your breath.

There's a whole BOATLOAD of info about Obama's father and how it runs totally opposite of what he's telling people.



BTW, check out his voting record in the U.S. Senate. The ADA rated him to the left of Kennedy and Hillary. Yet, the media makes no mention of this.

Obama recently apologized for a sweetheart Chicago real estate deal where he bought a house at a big discount and also bought a neighboring lot for a very small amount. The deal was done with a shady Syrian businessman now under indictment (the Syrian bought the house next door), who brokered the cut-rate deal on Obama's house).

What's even more interesting is that the Syrian is business partners with Elijah Mohammad's son. Is Obama involved with the Nation of Islam in some way?

Obama's mother was a Muslim-loving and highly unstable wackjob who couldn't care for her son. His half-sister is a very, very lefty high school and university teacher here in Hawaii. She really goes for the multiculti and feminist stuff.

At best, Obama as President will give you extreme Muslim pandering and Carteresque hostility to Israel. Given the choice (and I'm a Republican) I'd rather take the Jew-hater that I know in Clinton than the Muslim lefty I don't in Obama.

The web site is closing!!!!!!!!!!

Liberals, See what happens when you are out of step with your readers.

Quote:
How Many? 289 Out at Time Inc.
Bureaus Closed in D.C., Chicago, Los Angeles
By Nat Ives

Published: January 18, 2007
NEW YORK (AdAge.com) -- Today's job eliminations at Time Inc. totaled 289 mostly editorial posts after all was said and done, including layoffs at crown jewel People, flagship Time and other magazines from Entertainment Weekly to Sports Illustrated.


The good of the company
Time Inc., the country's largest magazine publisher, spent the morning telling hundreds of staffers their jobs were being eliminated -- in its latest and largest yet round of staff cuts -- for the company's good.

"As you all know, the past year has been a time of transition at Time Inc.," said Chairman-CEO Ann S. Moore in a midday memo to staff. "While we continue to invest in our core magazines, we are also focused on transforming our work force and broadening our digital capabilities in order to become a truly multiplatform publisher.

Hopes for buyouts
"But progress brings change and we need to continue to evolve to meet the cost pressures and challenges presented by our rapidly shifting industry," she added. "Today I need to share with all of you that we are announcing layoffs throughout the organization."

Of the 289 jobs eliminated, 117 are coming from the business side. Of the 172 editorial jobs being axed, the company hopes 86 will come from volunteers taking buyout packages -- while the other 86 are simply losing their posts.

It was a deeply unpleasant morning for many.

Time magazine's regular 10 a.m. meeting was canceled in favor of an all-hands gathering later on, leaving staffers to worry and wait. The word in the end was that the newsweekly will lose 40 or more spots, of which it hopes 31 will be volunteers. Time also shut down its Los Angeles, Chicago and Atlanta bureaus.

'Bummed'
"Everyone is pretty bummed out, as you can imagine," said one surviving Time staffer.

People Managing Editor Larry Hackett held a conference call to describe the cuts at his title, the biggest revenue generator in Time Inc.'s portfolio, and said the magazine is closing its bureaus in Washington; Miami; Chicago; and Austin, Texas, where about 20 staffers had worked.

Sports Illustrated will give up some two dozen employees.

1,500 reduction
After the layoffs, this month's sale of Progressive Farmer magazine and the pending sale of 18 magazines from the Time4 Media and Parenting groups, Time Inc.'s employee rolls will number just 10,500, down from roughly 12,000 before.

All the cuts are part of an intensive and continuing efficiency drive at the company, which as part of Time Warner feels pressure from Wall Street to show newfound growth year after year. The media landscape is changing around it at the same time, too, making digital investment a priority and uncertainty a guarantee. Although Ms. Moore's memo did not address whether any more layoffs could come, an insider said the company is done with large-scale staff reductions for the foreseeable future.

Previous rounds
Under Ms. Moore, the company has sought efficiency and streamlined decision-making in a variety of ways, including the staff reductions that came with a reorganization in December 2005. That first round of layoffs affected 105 people including veterans such as Jack Haire, exec VP-corporate sales and marketing group; Eileen Naughton, president, the Time group; and Richard Atkinson, exec VP-news and information group.

Time Inc. eliminated another 100 or so jobs last February, mostly from the editorial side, then 250 more in April, mostly from the business side. It closed the print edition of Teen People in July; it put the Time4 Media and Parenting Group assets, which employ about 560 people, up for sale in September. Last month, it axed 27 midlevel and junior employees from its consumer-marketing division



After years of subscribing to TIME, I permanently canceled my subscription back in the late '80s due to the blatant falsehoods they printed in their reporting about Second Amendment issues. After all, if they were inaccurate about that, they would be inaccurate about other things.

As for desperation, TIME now sends free copies to my home because of my son signing up for a MCAT review course. They are giving their product away!

Sneaux (for short), The Black leaders should be Mother and Father. This is where the problem lies. Bill and Oprah are mostly on target. The heat should be put on the family and parents held accountable for their progeny. This is not being done to a large degree. Many of us are on the right track and once we achieve a certain degree of sucess, tend to forget or dimiss from whence we came. Basketball, base ball players, etc., are not heros, they are athletes. Rappers are folks that use a lot of what they think will "get them over" until they become successful, then they change. (Ice-T, Combs, JZ).
There are a lot of facades out there, but God willing they won't stand up too long to intelligent scrutiny.

Excellent cut and paste, Red-!

unpoor says, "BTW, check out his voting record in the U.S. Senate. The ADA rated him to the left of Kennedy and Hillary. Yet, the media makes no mention of this."

Geez, That's what I been tryin to tell ya for a month now about this guy!

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2006/Info/senator-ratings.html

I think it's pretty unlikely that he's actually a Muslim, they don't allow conversion to Christianity. But he has three other big strikes against him.

- He's ultra liberal.

- He's manipulative and tries to appear to be different things depending on the group he's speaking to. (i.e., he's deceptive.)

- He's far too inexperienced to be president of anything, much less the United States of America.

thanks Paul... nothing really interesting on the Coulter site this week.

Posted by: wintersoldier on Jan 19, 07 | 4:53 pm


Good message Red. Too bad it is lost on most.

red, if you canceled your subscription to TIME in the 80s -- what are you doing on the TIME opinion leaders blog??

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/tm_method=full%26objectid=18442715%26siteid=94762-name_page.html


IN a dilapidated mosque, half a dozen awestruck young men listen to a preacher spell out his vision for Britain.

"King, Queen, House of Commons... if you accept it, you are a part of it," says Dr Ijaz Mian. "If you don't accept it, you have to dismantle it.

"So you being a Muslim, you have to fix a target. There will be no House of Commons. From that White House to this Black House, we know we have to dismantle it.

"Muslims must grow in strength... then take over."

A 10-month undercover investigation into home-grown extremism has revealed hard-line Islamic fundamentalism being preached in British mosques.

Some speakers call for girls to be hit if they don't wear Islamic dress and say that they can marry before puberty, others praise the Taliban.

Speaking at the Ahl-e-Hadith mosque, in Derby, Dr Mian tells his listeners: "You are in a situation in which you have to live like a state-within-a-state - until you take over.

"But until this happens, you have to preach, until you become such a force that the people just submit to you."

Dr Mian wants to see religious policemen roaming our streets, modelled on the feared Saudi Arabian force.

He says of their strict implementation of Sharia - or Islamic - law: "They send the police and they say: 'Well, if you don't come for prayer, we will arrest you. But if you still don't, then we have to bring the punishment on you - you will be killed and nobody will pray for you.'"

We need to be careful bringing any Muslim to politcal Office. Obama, Ellison... It needs to be stopped.

Posted by: richstacy on Jan 19, 07 | 5:12 pm


Same as you, keeping liberals honest. If there can be such a thing, a honest liberal that is. lol

BOBBYGEE again, IF YOU HAD BEEN READING the posts you would not have confused yourself on my position. But no, you went off the shallow end again. You fell into writing between the lines when you couldn't find anything there to read.

The word "neanderthal" was used by Jurgenwigg to describe Unpoor. My comment was relative to that usage.
You are incorrectly ascribing Jurg's words to me to build a criticism. Do try to keep the bloggers straight as you stagger thru the posts! Everything you had to say was to the wrong person.

UNPOOR go back and read it again. The guy in MN IS THE ONLY PRACTICING MUSLIM IN CONGRESS.

Obama is a CHRISTIAN. He is baptized in the Christian faith, practicing the Christian faith, is married in the Christian church and raising his kids in a Christian church. GOOD GRIEF!

Since when is the United Church of Christ a minor branch of Christianity? They are as mainstream Protestant as you can get.

UNPOOR you hardly had to give the link when I posted the article just above it.

UNPOOR you are beginning to sound like a member of the Spanish Inquisition.

MAPLE LEAF OBAMA WAS RAISED BY HIS MOTHER'S PARENTS NOT BY HIS FATHER, NOT BY HIS STEP-FATHER, NOT EVEN BY HIS MOTHER.

GINGER WHAT IS IT HE IS LYING ABOUT about????

PAUL hang onto your hat! This is going to be the craziest thread ever posted on this blog! These people have completely lost their minds!

You all act as though you never heard of divorce-absent parents-stepparents. We live in a culture where a good share of grandparents are raising the grandchildren; nothing new to our generation. The influence is from those who raised the children but I don't think you are going to figure that out.

So let's take a poll - How many of you are divorced?

How many of you have an ex raising your children?

How many of you have parents raising your children?

How many of you are grandparents raising the grand-children?

Okay - so how many of those kids are being turned into whatever the miscreant deadbeat absent parent is despite your best efforts?

Red, It's a sad truth. We need to get rid of the "crab in a barrel" mentality !! OOOPS!! did I say that ? How did you know Red was one of my nicknames ?
Rich, you and I misunderstand each other at times, but when we agree, it's definitely a total agreement..

JF, Since the Mirror thinks this is news, they have not read the koran.

You'd think the news media would be well versed on the Koran.......

.......There's only one explanation. The media is siding with the Muslims.

SHOELANDER the Democrats are not touting anyone! not even Hillary. This is ALL MEDIA AND NOTHING MORE!

Red, The media is in the business of exploiting sensationalism and they arrogantly think that they have their fingers on the pulse of the people. The basis for that assumption is the right folks don't speak up loudly and constantly enough and exert their collective power wher it's needed, in the marketplace. (too busy insulating themselves and making money) Altruism is out of the window. IMHO.

unpoor, I read the Turow article re Obama. Turow apparently thinks he walks on water.

JFAIR it will do no good at all for Obama to "speak up." It will do no good for Hillary to speak up. The idiots have already gone off half-cocked and they are not going to listen to reason or fact from anyone! OBAMA HAS ALREADY ANSWERED THE QUESTION ABOUT HIS RELIGION REPEATEDLY! Taking his family to church every Sunday pretty well answers it over and over and over don't you think? He is a practicing member of the oldest Christian denomination in America. That about says it all. There is no more proof than that.

Thanks for the link but neither us plays cards at all. I just catch the games in the wee hours waiting to get back to sleep. Husband sleeps right thru. Perhaps the whackoids here who are going to lose sleep over Obama will join in!

"LOL So I give up who is the Neanderthal"

DAMDIFINO! IF you figure it out let me know!!! Maybe BobbyGee knows? I just defended Unpoor against the charge from some jugghead. Then BG went off the deep end, misread everything and decided I was calling well - God only knows who - a neanderthal. IF BobbyGee can't understand what he read he twists it all around into whatever he thinks it might or should have said and goes galloping off on some bizarre tangent unrelated to anything actually written. He doesn't seem to notice how absurd he looks doing this but let's not tell him. Maybe he an make up someone to be a neanderthall since I didn't name one. JFAIR Do have a nominee???

JF, Given the state of affairs, I'm seriously against Muslims holding office in the U.S.; and I don't like Obama, but the reason I don't like him is not that he is a Muslim. There is no evidence that I know of, that he is a Muslim. Having converted to Christianity, he is a prime target to be killed by fanatic Muslims, however. Converting to Christianity is a big no no in the Muslim world. That is, if he was ever Muslim to start with.

UNPOOR schlussel? That's GERMAN. Back it up a few decades and see how much credence she would get! Take out the krauts UNPOOR then remove the ITALIANS too!

If you raised any kids it's been a few decades! Nobody lives their adult lives by what they experienced 1st-4th grade. MOST people don't even remember those years!

Look around you! 1/2 of Americans are DIVORCED and then 1/2 of them are REMARRIED. That's a lot of absent parents and a lot of 1/2 sibs none of whom have much influence if they even have contact with each other! That's a lot of hostility. The Brady Bunch was a huge LIE! The kids do NOT GET ALONG! They are NOT FRIENDS! IF anything they are best enemies. IF you can get them to stand beside each other at a wedding you have done well! But don't plan on it.

NEWFLASH! You can get a free website from blogspot.com OR you can pay $ for a site with lots of bells and whistles on it. You can post anything you want to type. NONE OF IT HAS TO BE TRUE! You can just make it up! If you put the right metatags on it the search engines will all pick it up. And stupid people everywhere can find your fiction and believe every word and post it on blogs like this one! The courts have already determined that a blog is an opinion and libel laws do not apply to opinions so it's an open field.

So you saw it on the internet - how many times has Perry McKenzie said that? It had to be true I read it on the internet. No, it doesn't have to be true.


My favorite story - Conan O'Brien mentioned "hornymanatee.com" as a joke then Legal told him if he mentioned a website it has to exist so they paid the small $ and put up the website. A month later over 18 MILLION people had been to "www.hornymanatee.com".

Does anyone know what a manatee is? Well about 20 Million do now! and are laughing! It's INTERNET folks! It's fiction! It's just for fun!

UNPOOR check out the manatee next time you check up on your German writer.

Here's a sobering thought for you - I AM PUBLISHED! in several magazines, some in other countries. See? Anyone can get into print!

richstacy: You owe me big time for getting the Wildflower off your back !

Just recovered from falling off the "deep" end, no wait "shallow" end and a "wild tangent", direction not defined. She can take us knuckledraggers for a helluva ride !

Defending unpoor. Now there's a act of kindness on her part.

I think unpoor can do an adequate job of defense and doesn't need anyone's help.




w

His experience with islam was before he was 10 years old! Then he lived with his white middle class Christian grandparents from Kansas who lived in Hawaii! Now how many of you say YOUR kids "converted" to Christianity when as adults they kept going to the church you took them to as children?

IF every child of divorce is saddled with the religion of the parent who walked out when they were 2 years old we are in a sad mess in this country! And I don't know any child who is stuck with the religion of a step-parent!

Okay it's el niño? freaked out ions in the atmosphere today?

So BobbyGee you misread the post and here you are trying to weasel out of your own mistake -again.

Has it ever occurred to you to just own up when you misread a post and make a fool of yourself coming down on someone for something they never said?

OR better yet. Here's a thought - let it go.

Everyone else, no matter how far off center on this topic, is attempting to discuss it. Here you are discussing me again!

A fetish? You poor old thing. When we start banning the WWII surnames to go along with our banning of islamic names we need to throw in the Italians too. We have already Americanized Pizza and Spaghetti was Chinese anyway.

or is that FRENCH aaaccckkkk just as bad, maybe worse.

JAFAIR you know half the people here will not catch the references to Briton and will think you are typing about Detroit and you are stirring up hysteria.

RICH you know very well if we change the Constitution to prohibit members of any one religion from holding office Christians will be next!

EVERY ONE OF YOU IS READING OBAMA WRONG ON RELIGION! Thru history you have to look at the religion OF HIS WIFE!
Men traditionally and historically leave their own church to attend church with their spouse! So unless Mrs. Obama is Muslim you have nothing to worry about.

The hysteria on this thread regarding a man who has yet to announce his intentions is rather comical. Wow! You guys act like you've dug up some previously unknown dirt on him or something. What, dug up? It's published in a bestseller!


One of the things I find most refreshing about Obama, is that his life is literally, an open book. In fact, go buy his autobiography and you'll learn all kinds of things about him. Smoked pot? Yup, in the book. Parents divorced?.... in the book too. Attended a Muslim school for 2 years as a young child?..... yes, in the book as well. BTW, since most of the population of Indonesia is Muslim, that would describe MOST schools in Indonesia. And what about the fact that his stepfather also allowed him to attend a catholic school for 2 years? That sounds like a real radical fundamentalist to me!

I guess some of you out there are really worried that a black man could run for President and needed to find another way to try and turn the public against him. Given that it is now socially acceptable to be prejudiced against muslims, but not blacks, I guess this strategy makes sense to some sick and twisted minds.

Keep it up though, the smear tactics are sure to backfire on you. As with Watergate, Iran-contra-gate and Monica-gate....the cover-up is the sexy part of the scandal that people get worked up about. Obama has concealed none of the stuff you're all so excited about.

By the time the actual elections come, the short attention spans of the general public will have long since moved on to some other topic just as meaningless.

Oh yeah, And someone tell me WHY again that a person's religiosity should be the topic of political and governmental discourse? Last time I looked, we weren't (yet) a theocracy.

JURG said:

"I mean really, unpoor, is that all you can come up with? That you're so ignorant and removed that you can't name stuff that Obama did? Then do a quick google search on him, i promise, it could not be easier. Even you could do it and not sound like a blundering neanderthal.Posted by: jurgenwigg on Jan 18, 07 | 1:59 pm"

THEN I SAID:

"If blundering neanderthals annoy you
then you have come to the wrong blog! We cherish our neanderthals here and defend them from caustic outsiders who come here to attack them on some ego venture looking to puff themselves up."


THEN BOBBYGEEWHIZ SAID:

"Why do you see opposition to Obama,based on his relative inexperience in developing political, administrative and management skills as a "neanderthal" and racist reaction ?
I suppose the neanderthals are conservative Republicans and the racists are ultra-conservative Republicans ?
You accuse others of irrational judgement, yet you're as quick on the draw as the next guy/gal."

¿¿¿¿¿¿¿ HUH ???????

COLORME - Imagine the hysteria if the man ever announces any specific intentions toward running or if the Democrats ever actually make any statements about any actual candidates. This blog would explode! As it is only Rich Stacy seems to not be on antihistamines today and he remains tentative.

Guess you gotta be careful where kids go to primary school! Who knows what evil lurks to lure the under 10 set ad how it could affect them in their 40s!

These people are just whacked.

Savage just reported Clinton's have P.I's headed for Indonesia to track down the Madrassa Obama Osama attended. What's that smell? It's burnt Osama Obama, he's toast. Ahem, ah... Edwards, you watching this?

This came from the interview by Savage and his website:

http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Obama_2.htm

Well the is bottom line, there are enough misguided "Blue collar" Democrats who aren't going to vote for a goofy looking big eared purple lipped foreign black muslim liberal jerkwad like Obama Hussein Baraka.

He's done for.

Apparently, the only thing we have to go on is Obama's word. And we all know how honest politicians are. That was an interesting article someone posted about once a Muslim always a Muslim. It had some interesting thoughts to chew on.

In the court of publlic opinion (where one is not innocent until proven guilty) Obama is guilty.

The borden of proof is not up to the public to prove his innocence.

This is going to fall on Obama's integrity; he'll either lie and get caught or he'll tell the truth and lose the primary because he is a muslim.

He could be the perfect example of one who pratices that Al Taauiyyeh thing.

Obamd WILL answer to us I don't look for the democrats to support a muslim; maybe a far left0wingnut but not your every day democrat.

No one wants a muslim POTUS; and those who do should remain suspect.

WldFlwr @ 6:28 PM: "let it go"

WldFlwr @ 7:39 PM: "Then I said:"
" Then Bobbygeewhiz said"


Classical example of being all over the map, in, out, up, down, through, around, over, under

First she says she will, then she says she won't,

Now I'll let it go.

Would someone please tell me the purpose of a vote of no confidence on the Iraq plan means?
Also tell me how i can come to a conclusion on this vote other than it is a political move. In addition how can it have a different result than encouragement of the enemy to hold on the replacements are coming, or the politics is winning.

case closed the plaintiffs fully compensated.

Wld: not treat me like rich. You in your history of obama completely ignored the schooling that he received during his first 10 years. His father was a muslim. My father was a catholic. However the catholic religion does not contain the tenent that if you ever convert to anoter faith you become not wanted and the catholic will kill you it they get a chance. Now i do not profess to know all as a fact all the things i said above but these facts have been in many places in the past couple months. I proposed a hyenthentical question and asked the for the answer as if the facts i stated were true. You acted like i went off on a rant. I asked the question to put some life in this very boring and irrevelant subject.
Items like this are to get name reconition for canidates without the canidate haveing to spent any money. I would prefer for the canidate to spend the money and then these discussions to take place. Therefore i will withdraw my question and resubmitt it if necessary when Senator Obama becomes the canidate. I also expect that the media will track the muslim vote as it does the catholic vote during the election process.

wld: When did the obama's join the chicago church? Did he practice any religion during the years getting this fabolus education? Who is his favorite professor while in school. Will that person become secretary of defense?
These are the questions i want to know the answers to. Please continue your research.

Wld: You again apparently only read part of my post that was in two parts. You missed the first part.
It said in part that would the muslims consider that obama was a muslim and by that assumption they cosider that he abandoned them and now considered him an infidel and wouold take every action to kill him partically if he were the POTUS. Would it mean as president he could not travel out otf the united states because of security? Would he have to act like OBL and hide? This is the stuff movies are made of girl. Get with it.

Not a boring thread anymore.

Its nice that you guys are so concerned with Obama's safety and well-being and all, but I think that concern is a little displaced. Do you actually believe that George "bring it on" Bush Is NOT the number one target? Do you think the man who chose to invade Iraq, who coined the Axis of Evil phrase,who has been establishing permanent bases in Iraq and whose buddies are profitting immensely in the oil and defense industry....is Mr Popularity or something?

Get real! Even most of our allies dislike him. Geez, given HIS approval ratings, he should be scared to leave the White House.

Bobbygee says, "richstacy: You owe me big time for getting the Wildflower off your back !"

Will you accept payment in neanderthal dollars? :-)

wld says, "RICH you know very well if we change the Constitution to prohibit members of any one religion from holding office Christians will be next!"

Huh?? When did I suggest we change the Constitution to prohibit members of any religion from holding office?? Never, that's when.

I did say that given the current state of affairs, I wouldn't vote for a Muslim. I consider it the world's most backward, repressive, violent and intolerant religion. I also said I saw no proof of any kind that Obama IS a Muslim. But that I would never vote for him anyway,
because he is an ultra-liberal.
PS, I won't be voting for Edwards, Hillary or Gore either.

I figured it out wild, since I said I was opposed to Muslims holding office in the U.S. you misread that to mean i wanted to amend the Constitution. Weren't you just accusing bobbygee of misreading posts and jumping to conclusions?

These are the questions i want to know the answers to. Please continue your research.
Posted by: tkearns on Jan 20, 07 | 10:27 am

TK: Just heard it again on the news...If you want answers you will need to go to Clintons, not Google. Clinton sent over investigators to the Muslim school. Expect to hear something very soon on this. I just wonder why we need Clintons to do this, where is the press or the Republicans?

Did you guys notice when quesioned on the newsclip Obama said "it was sort of like Muslim school" but when he described the Christain school "it was a Catholic School" not sort of like a Catholic school... This boy is dancing around it too much.

Will you accept payment in neanderthal dollars? :-)
Posted by: richstacy on Jan 20, 07 | 1:12 pm

Rich: I may be wrong but I thought they traded rocks? lol

http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Obama_2.htm Here 'tis cut and paste.

Posted by: WldFlwr on Jan 19, 07 | 7:39 pm

Patti: Thanks for sticking up for me, from the newbies, I think... All I know is I don't ever want to be on the receiving end of the wrath of WidFlr!

Rich, BobbyGee... :P

nice job winter... or can we call you Red now?

Hillary's team has questions about Obama's Muslim background

Sen. Barack Obama approached the media after a meeting with President Bush at the White House on Jan. 5. (AFP/File/Mannie Garcia)



Are the American people ready for an elected president who was educated in a Madrassa as a young boy and has not been forthcoming about his Muslim heritage?



This is the question Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton’s camp is asking about Sen. Barack Obama.



An investigation of Mr. Obama by political opponents within the Democratic Party has discovered that Mr. Obama was raised as a Muslim by his stepfather in Indonesia. Sources close to the background check, which has not yet been released, said Mr. Obama, 45, spent at least four years in a so-called Madrassa, or Muslim seminary, in Indonesia.



"He was a Muslim, but he concealed it," the source said. "His opponents within the Democrats hope this will become a major issue in the campaign."



When contacted by Insight, Mr. Obama’s press secretary said he would consult with “his boss” and call back. He did not.



Sources said the background check, conducted by researchers connected to Senator Clinton, disclosed details of Mr. Obama's Muslim past. The sources said the Clinton camp concluded the Illinois Democrat concealed his prior Muslim faith and education.



"The background investigation will provide major ammunition to his opponents," the source said. "The idea is to show Obama as deceptive."



In two best-selling autobiographies—"The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream" and "Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance"—Mr. Obama, born in Honolulu where his parents met, mentions but does not expand on his Muslim background, alluding only to his attendance at a "predominantly Muslim school."



The sources said the young Obama was given the name Hussein by his Muslim father, which the Illinois Democrat rarely uses in public.



His father was black and came from Kenya. Mr. Obama’s mother, the daughter of a farmer, came from Wichita, Kansas. Mr. Obama's parents divorced when he was two years old. His father returned to Kenya.



Later, Mr. Obama's mother married an Indonesian student and the family moved to Jakarta. Mr. Obama returned to Hawaii when he was 10 to live with his maternal grandparents.



The sources said the background check concerned Mr. Obama's years in Jakarta. In Indonesia, the young Obama was enrolled in a Madrassa and was raised and educated as a Muslim. Although Indonesia is regarded as a moderate Muslim state, the U.S. intelligence community has determined that today most of these schools are financed by the Saudi Arabian government and they teach a Wahhabi doctrine that denies the rights of non-Muslims.



Although the background check has not confirmed that the specific Madrassa Mr. Obama attended was espousing Wahhabism, the sources said his Democratic opponents believe this to be the case—and are seeking to prove it. The sources said the opponents are searching for evidence that Mr. Obama is still a Muslim or has ties to Islam.



Mr. Obama attends services at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago’s South Side. However, he is not known to be a regular parishioner.



"Obama's education began a life-long relationship with Islam as a faith and Muslims as a community," the source said. "This has been a relationship that contains numerous question marks."



The sources said Mr. Obama spent at least four years in a Muslim school in Indonesia. They said when Mr. Obama was 10, his mother and her second husband separated. She and her son returned to Hawaii.



"Then the official biography begins," the source said. "Obama never returned to Kenya to see relatives or family until it became politically expedient."



In both of his autobiographies, Mr. Obama characterizes himself as a Christian—although he describes his upbringing as mostly secular.



In “The Audacity of Hope,” Mr. Obama says, "I was not raised in a religious household." He describes his mother as secular, but says she had copies of the Bible, the Koran and the Bhagavad Gita in their home.



Mr. Obama says his father was "raised a Muslim, but by the time he met my mother he was a confirmed atheist...." Mr. Obama also describes his father as largely absent from his life. He says his Indonesian stepfather was "skeptical" about religion and "saw religion as not particularly useful in the practical business of making one's way in the world ...."



In the book, Mr. Obama briefly addresses his education in Indonesia. "During the five years that we would live with my stepfather in Indonesia, I was sent first to a neighborhood Catholic school and then to a predominantly Muslim school; in both cases, my mother was less concerned with me learning the catechism or puzzling out the meaning of the muezzin's call to evening prayer than she was with whether I was properly learning my multiplication tables."




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Special Subscription Offer

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Mr. Obama graduated from Columbia University and Harvard Law School; he became the first black editor of the Harvard Law Review. He later settled in Chicago, joined a law firm and began attending and helping local churches.



Mr. Obama is married to Michelle Robinson and they have two daughters, Malia and Sasha. In 1996, he was elected to the Illinois state Senate. Eight years later, he became a U.S. senator from Illinois.



The sources said Ms. Clinton regards Mr. Obama as her most formidable opponent and the biggest obstacle to the Democratic Party’s 2008 presidential nomination. They said Ms. Clinton has been angered by Mr. Obama's efforts to tap her supporters for donations.



In late 2006, when the Illinois senator demonstrated his intention to run for president, the Clinton campaign ordered a background check on Mr. Obama, the sources said. Earlier this week, Mr. Obama established an exploratory committee, the first step toward a formal race.

We don't trust Muslims. And with good reason. Some are fine, many ARE NOT.

And like it or not, they're the ones with the bassackwards culture, running around the globe killing people, stoning women, and cutting people's heads off.

Muslims typically are MUSLIMS first, citizens of a country a distant second. The problem with that, unlike with Jews or Christians being Jews or Christians first, is that Islam doesn't peacefully coexist with a government, it is a form of governement in and of itself.

I heard Rahm Emanuel hadn't decided between Mrs.Clinton and Obama Osama. Bill will probably remind him of this anyday now:

The Implausible Suicide Of Vincent Foster
http://www.swlink.net/~hoboh/foster/pages/anatomy/implausible.htm

Let's see? We've got:
Commie Rodham Clinton
Barack Osama
The Bret Girl
Killer Kerry
Vilsack
Freak Frankhan
Chuck Wrangle
Who else?
Bring 'em on. The more, the merrier.
Fifty libs in the ring at the 2008 D N Convention.
It's going to fun to watch.

Ace , not to be cofused with Red the poster, that is permissable, but you have to put Big in front of it. That nickname for me is sort of universal with most of the folks I know.
My reaction towards Mssr Obama is not so much where he came from, but, from observation of his responses and body english, may sound strange, but that's what I used to do as part of my much loved profession. Usually corresct 95% of the time. The other 5%? Who knows.

Big Red, what does your 95% tell you?

So this joker didn't even grow up in America.

The Founders should have written in some kind of residency requirement to the qualifications to be President.

Posted by: Ace on Jan 20, 07 | 2:38 pm

"He was a Muslim, but he concealed it," the source said. "His opponents within the Democrats hope this will become a major issue in the campaign."

I always wondered about the name... I wonder how the liberal controlled media is going to spin this on Sunday news shows... Is it just me or you think this is a major issue with Americans?

Sir loin, I know the guy is an ultra liberal and here is the proof:

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2006/Info/senator-ratings.html

Now where is the proof that he was/is a Muslim? If it exists, that's a biggie for me, but I have yet to see it.

Ace, I posted a while back how I felt about him before he became a topic. but from what I observed, when he is focused and knows he's being watched, he is outgoing and very personable, when he's now aware of being on camera he's dimissive, abrupt and curt at times.
A lot of us noticed the same tendencies In CSM Wooldridge, First Sergeant Major of the Army, who had his Distinguished Service Cross Taken away from him for malfeasance.

now should be not, quick fingers again.

...but I have yet to see it.
Posted by: richstacy on Jan 20, 07 | 5:00 pm


...then perhaps you are more blind than I feared.

here are an estimated 8 million muslims living in the US. I guess we should all be home hiding under our beds. There are also approx 10,000 muslims serving in the US military, possibly more since its not required to disclose your religious affiliation. I guess they should all be "suspect" as well. OMG.......and they have weapons! they're imbedded with our troops. They could be collaborating with Al Qeada as we speak! Wow, if we were to remove all of them from the ranks, that sure would put a big dent in Bush's surge numbers, wouldn't it?

Maybe all 8 million of them in the US should be rounded up immediately and placed in concentration camps.

It wasn't so long ago that you jokers were so convinced that all liberals were a bunch of paranoid "tinfoil hat" types. Guess the shoe's on the other foot now. The next 2 years should be really entertaining.

I gather we will have to wait and see what turns up one way or the other. Should he even achieve the highest office, I don't believe he would be able to get away with achieving a radical agenda, he might be able to do so later by building a base of sleepers. I guess I'm used to thinking outside the box at times. Us Christians et al haven't been doing such a good job lately either.

sir loin, don't give me that "you're more blind" crap. I assure you that I am neither blind nor a fool. I asked you for proof that this guy is Muslim, you didn't produce even a scrap of evidence. If you have it, let me see it. If you don't, don't be making claims you can't back up. I'm not saying he's not, I'm just asking for proof. Don't add one and one and get 16. That shows you are either a hysterical nut or a child. In America, especially in my profession, we require proof before we condemn someone. this is not Nazi Germany, or Mao's china, or Stalin's Russia. Nor is it some Muslim backwater where accusations are deemed proof. So get off your high horse.

richstacy/tkearns: You're both unable to read posts ! ;^)

Yes, Neander Thals will be fine as payment.

Posted by: colormepurple on Jan 20, 07 | 5:49 pm

Like all other legal immigrants, Muslims are welcome to stay as long as they are peaceful and adapt American values and traditions.

I don't believe we are ready enough for a Muslim President.

sir loin, don't give me that "you're more blind" crap. Posted by: richstacy on Jan 20, 07 | 6:15 pm

Have you been listening and reading the news the past couple of days? I am not surprised you are that out of touch.

HA! And you have the nuts to chide Wldflwr for being all over the place on an issue. She is right about you....

A couple more for you to add to your list, Ace:

Bill Richardson

Tom Dodd

And one for you to start glorifying:

Sam Brownback

Who will your forces of ignorance support?

Rich: I have made friends for life with a gore liberal trial lawyer. He won my case. And we were able to have great discussions with out calling names like happens on here. Should be interesting he is going to send me al gores movie.

we got within 9 % of our claim.

BG: What did i misread?

No one defined the purpose of the vote of no confidence?

Yes sir loin I have been reading the news, I've seen nothing even approaching proof that Obama is a Muslim. On the contrary, he appears to be a member of the United Church of Christ and has done considerable work for the church for many years. The fact that he may have been sent to a Madrassa when he was a small child would probably keep me from voting for him even if he was not an ultra liberal, but it damn sure doesn't mean he is a Muslim. How does that put me "all over the place?" Perhaps the concepts of evidence, and proof are simply beyond your grasp. Actually, I got an A in evidence, and in criminal and civil procedure, what did you get?

tk, I'm glad you won. re Gore's movie, "An inconvenient truth," NBC news ran a piece a couple of nights ago about scientists in the Antarctic, taking cores of the deep ice there.

So far, the cores have shown at least eight separate major ice ages, (with intervening major periods of warming) all within recent geological time. Now there is a REAL “inconvenient truth.” One that Gore and his buddies can't explain and won't even face. The earth has undergone a great many periods of warming and cooling in its long history. These cycles are as natural as day and night. This is indisputable scientific fact.

What caused these previous periods of massive global warming and cooling? Perhaps prehistoric Republicans trashing the planet? ;>} When Mr. gore and his faithful can explain this maybe I'll be less skeptical about global warming.

Mr gore is full of it and is a deliberate alarmist, As of today, the Pacific is warming up, hence the weather anomalies. I know very few read my post on the amount of pollution and heat Volcanoes on the ocean floor contribute as oppsed to China and the US, so I won't bother to repeat myself. Believe Gore if you will.
Rich, last para..ditto.

tk: You've misread nothing. It was a jocular comment.

richstacy: "....concepts of evidence, and proof...." Are not important to ideologues.

In fact, they believe in the credo of making a statement implying it's fact and, if necessary, finding the 'evidence' to fit.

Yes, and wouldn't it be atrocous if Mr Gore is mistaken and we cleaned up our air and water, decreased dependence on foreign oil, protected fragile ecosystems and conserved non-repenishable planetary resources......ALL FOR NOTHING!!

Thanks Rich: That information makes great items for future discussions with my counsel while we are celibrating over a case of wine. Where can i go to get other "inconvient truths"?

Or you can just keep feading them to me.

Color: I am for all the things that you say but to do that we will have to go back to the 7th century way of living. We would be praying five times a day and not have time to prusue the capitalistic way and we would have no economy that would be able to provide for the billions on this planet that are poor.

As an engineer i understand that compromises have to be made. To become non depedent from foreign oil we have to use other sources. Why then has senator Gore and others refused to allow a energy policy that utilizes nuclear and wind power to provide our electric needs. Gore has blocked hydroelectric plants(one in tennessee.) Senator kennedy has objected to wind generators from blocking his view of the bay. If you are going to talk the talk you have to walk the walk.

I'm sure it won't be long before the report is out:

Quote:
The sources said the background check concerned Mr. Obama's years in Jakarta. In Indonesia, the young Obama was enrolled in a Madrassa and was raised and educated as a Muslim. Although Indonesia is regarded as a moderate Muslim state, the U.S. intelligence community has determined that today most of these schools are financed by the Saudi Arabian government and they teach a Wahhabi doctrine that denies the rights of non-Muslims.


Although the background check has not confirmed that the specific Madrassa Mr. Obama attended was espousing Wahhabism, the sources said his Democratic opponents believe this to be the case—and are seeking to prove it. The sources said the opponents are searching for evidence that Mr. Obama is still a Muslim or has ties to Islam.


The point here isn't whether or not he's Muslim or Christian or a penguin. What interests me is that this is coming from the DEMOCRATS, not the Republicans. So argue all you want about his religious affiliation but thrill in the fact that the DemoCATS' claws are out and the meow match is ready to start in earnest nearly 12 months before the first primary.

Hillary announced yesterday. Behold the Clinton attack machine in action. If they can't find any dirt on you, they'll kill your pets.

Posted by: paul on Jan 20, 07 | 7:43 pm

Paul: The democrats are hypocrites. They get mad when we tell people to vote for candidates who actually still believe in the 10 commandments and maybe even go to church on a regular basis. But a religious test is Ok for them when it suits their cause. Same thing with taxes, health care, social security, and environmentalism. They like to impose laws on us, as long as it doesn't affect them.

What you have to realize, JFairplay, is that there are lots of people in this country who believe in the 10 commandments, who go to church on a regular basis, and who have strong and close families; and they are far removed from the garbage of your politics.

These are not the kind of people who will kill your pets.

Actually, JFairplay, it's comments like that that cause many people to hold your political views in high distain.

With that in mind, please, do continue to make them.

jf says, "The point here isn't whether or not he's Muslim or Christian or a penguin. What interests me is that this is coming from the DEMOCRATS, not the Republicans. So argue all you want about his religious affiliation but thrill in the fact that the DemoCATS' claws are out and the meow match is ready to start in earnest nearly 12 months before the first primary."
Right on JF, that is the point!

I really feel sorry for those in charge of Hillary's campaign -- they are trying to repackage her as, well, likable. Talk about mission impossible. Sort of like repackaging Typhoid Mary as a great disease fighter.

BTW, I missed the SNL skit last night, but heard it was very good. Showed Hillary in her new nice person incarnation, but she reverted to her nasty self when the name Obama was mentioned. Anybody see it?

rich, If a Clinton is in the race, it will get ugly, fast.

Let's not forget, republicans.......youn also have a primary race to look foward to. If you think that your candidates are above using the dig up and smear tactics, I suggest you take a backward look at what was done to John McCain in the 2000 primary. The Bush/Rove political machine accused him of everything from being mentally unstable to fathering an out of wedlock black child. Not to mention what they did to his wife.

Now that McCain has alligned himself with the Bush camp, while most republicans are jumping ship, be prepared for a bloodbath. And if you think Guiliani has no skeletons in his closet, then you are probably delusional.

Don't worry, they'll be enough action on your side of the fence to keep us entertained as well.

colorme I for one do not deny that all politicians, regardless of party, are capable of political dirty tricks.

Re your earlier post on Gore. Have you ever traveled colorme? If so, then you know from first hand experience that our air and water are quite pristine compared to many other parts of the world.

I'm sure you also know that even if you assume that global warming is caused by man, one of the best ways to cut down on greenhouse gases is to turn to nuclear power plants which produce NO GREENHOUSE GASSES at all, none. I'm sure you also know that environmentalists, and Democrats have prevented the building of a single new nuclear plant in the U.S. since the '70s --thus our prodigious production of CO2 from fossil fuel plants. Meanwhile, the Europeans, have used new technology, much of it developed in the United States to build several new generations of efficient, and much safer nuclear plants.

It's time for the Democrats to put their money where their mouths are. We could drastically reduce emissions of greenhouse gasses if only we could get the Dems the hell out of the way.

Posted by: richstacy on Jan 21, 07 | 1:11 pm
There you go using logic again. Dims do not care about the environment, Dims only care about getting power.

I heard a man justify his secular faith in evolution by saying that his god was in chemistry texts and biology books.

I can create and appreciate art and literature.
Dogs and dolphins cannot.
I can create medicines, language and architecture.
Apes and antelope cannot.
I can make scientific discoveries in chemistry, biology and genetics that allow me to see God’s hand in every natural wonder.
I can implement these discoveries to enhance vision, heal the sick and make the world a better place.
Cats and caribou cannot.
I can read about, write about, discuss and worship our Heavenly Father, God.
Carville and Kucinich cannot.

What's your point sir loin? That man embodies a soul and that lower creatures do not? Therefore we have to accept that the universe was created in 7 days, that man was formed out of clay and that woman sprung from his rib? Do creation and evolution need to be mutually exclusive? Is it not possible that God's hand was in the evolututionary process as it is "in every natural wonder"?

Yes, we can make those "scientific discoveries in chemistry, biology and genetics that allow us to see God’s hand in every natural wonder.
We can implement these discoveries to enhance vision, heal the sick and make the world a better place."

Unfortunately we can and have also used those wonderful discoveries to kill and destroy on a massive scale. Can we say that of the lower species? Think about that.

That man embodies a soul and that lower creatures do not? Posted by: colormepurple on Jan 21, 07 | 1:47 pm

Yes, it is called free will.

No need to get preachy sir loin. What brought that up?
Along with millions of others, I believe that evolution is the tool that God used, and continues to use to create life. I do not take Genesis literally. If I did, I'd have a hard time explaining 400 million year old fossils, or the fact that million of dinosaurs disappeared countless eons before the first primitive man appeared.

Many years ago I was a core driller who lived and worked with geologists on a daily basis. I saw ancient fossils by the thousand with my own eyes from layers of sedimentary rock laid down over countless millions of years in ancient seas. I have on my wall a fossil fish from the Red dessert in southern Wyoming, 60 million years old -- from the age of dinosaurs, a species extinct for millions of years.

The oldest Human fossils (or humanoid ones) are now a couple of million years old. Why would I be arrogant enough to believe that God was so simple as to create the earth in 7 days just 4 thousand years ago? Obviously his plan was far more complex. Who is arrogant enough to presume to know the ways of God?

Remember that once, people were killed by the Church for suggesting that the earth was not the center of the universe, and that the sun did not revolve around the earth every 24 hours.

Muslims typically are MUSLIMS first, citizens of a country a distant second. The problem with that, unlike with Jews or Christians being Jews or Christians first, is that Islam doesn't peacefully coexist with a government, it is a form of governement in and of itself.

Posted by: Ace on Jan 20, 07 | 4:04 pm

Ace: You see this in particular in the different sects of Islam: The allegiance to the -sect- is more important and carries more weight than the allegiance to the -country- in which they reside.

Remember that once, people were killed by the Church for suggesting that the earth was not the center of the universe, and that the sun did not revolve around the earth every 24 hours.
Posted by: richstacy on Jan 21, 07 | 2:37 pm

Yes, and do you remember when confronted with the facts the the fence sitters of the time, were still asking for more proof?

Posted by: richstacy on Jan 21, 07 | 1:11 pm


....meanwhile in the dark corner, a Democrat parrot squaks: BRAAAAWK OBAMA

No Sir Loin. they weren't "fence sitters" they were religionists, devout Christians of their day, absolutely convinced by their faith that they were right when in fact they were dead wrong. Turns out God's universe was just a tad more complex and mysterious than they fervently believed it was.

You are quite right about Muslims though, they would never be able to give allegiance to the Constitution first, because the Koran and Islamic law always come first.

Just over 14 years ago, the nation relegated Daddy Bush to the dustbin history in the 1992 Presidental election. Although thoroughly reputiated. shortly after the election the soon-to-be ex-president had a temper tantrum and dispatched troops on an ill advised mission to a desert hell hole known as Somalia.

Preoccupied with cleaning up the economic mess left by Daddy Bush, President Clinton neglected to withdraw the troops. However, when 18 soldiers died in a firefight, Clinton owned up to his mistake, and subsequently removed the troops from an untenible position. Clinton realized that the it was a no-win position and that soldiers lives were more important than his ego.

Yesterday, 25 men died in another no-win hellhole called Iraq. Has Dubya even said anything about this? No way. His ego won't let him.

Are troops are trapped in a Rube Goldberg meat grinder.

Not to protect the country.

Not to defeat an enemy.

Not even for some economic benefit.

The only reason they're there is because Dubya can't admit he made a mistake.

Beware of small men in big places. And if theres a better case for impeachment, I've never seen it.

Zom: It is sure that you are committed to a idology that you can not seperate from because it will cause yo to admit that you are partially wrong. You have condemed a person that you have never met as being small, dumb and all the other names that you have called the president. I met one of these in court last week who had in notes taken by him as he was deciding if a complaint i made to his government office had merit. He noted that i was in over my head and i did not know what i was doing. When it was pointed out that this "Judge" of if the law was violated as i claimed had never visited the scene of the claim, had never met me and had refused to talk to me over the phone the jury decided that my evidence presented to the jury was correct. He also refused to consider any evidence provided by me and complained that i investigated the incident on my own when his office told me they were done and no evidence could be found.
You will never be called to account for your "judgements" but you have every right to express them. But realize that rational individuals read them and pass judgement on their believabilty. In the future they will consider the source. Have a great day.

Zom: Please send your case for impeachment to Senator Obama. He is looking for a big deal to make him the hero. I am sure he will see the posibilities of inpeachment as you do.

Zom: be sure to tell us all here what the senator tells you. Thanks.

No Zombeese, we are there to attempt to establish a toehold for democracy, tolerance and pluralism in the most troubled part of the world -- a part of the world dominated by dictatorship, totalitarianism. intolerance and religious zealotry. For the sake of your children and grand children, you'd better hope we are successful. If we are not, then the Islamic wars are just beginning and 9/11 was only a prelude to many bigger and more costly attacks. Bush may well fail, due largely to a lack of will on the part of people like you -- but at least he tried and that was a noble thing to do.

He freed a nation form the clutches of one of the world's most vicious and murderous dictators. He gave Iraq a chance for freedom and self determination. If Iraqis are not smart enough to grasp it. So be it. If you and Obama and John Edwards are partisan enough to kill the cance for a breakthrough in the Islamic black hole of death and destruction, shame on all of you!! Our children and grand children will live to regret, it and pay for it with their lives.

Is anything worth sacrificing a few lives for to you zombesse? In WWII we frequently lost four or five hundred American lives a day. On D-Day we lost more than 2,000 in just a few hours. At least as much is at stake right now.

If we pull out now, every two-bit jihadi in the world will be emboldened to bring death and destruction to the West, especially to the "great Satan" (that would be you Zombese). In the short run, the Shiite militias would probably slaughter hundreds of thousands of their former Sunni oppressors, Iran would be emboldened byond measure, and the whole region would be thrown into turmoil. It could even result in Israel being forced to use nuclear weapons to survive.

Use your head man!! Impeachment? You are a 22 carat fool.

zombeese, are you recommending that whenever our soldiers get massacred that we pull out? Good Idea !! Let's all go home and wait for the visitors to come here. Then where will we , in your infinite wisdom, recommend we run to then ? I know you have some experience in warlike situations and I am waiting with bated breath for your erudite suggestions.

Tkearns: Sorry, but I don't understand the point you are trying to make. I guess your saying that since I've never actually met Dubya, I don't have the grounds to call him a moron.

Fair enough.

zombeese, I think you are being deilberately naive unless you are about 16 years old and don't know any better ....Which is it ?

Rich: Your question "Is anything worth sacrificing a few lives for to you zombesse?" hits the nail on the head and gets to the crux of the issue.

The direct answer is Yes. For example, I agreed with the Afghanistan war. if China were to attack Japan, by all means I think we should defend our ally to maximum extent. If England, Canada, Austrailia, or Western Europe were to be attached. I also think that Saudi Arabia should have been carpet bombed after 9/11. And I absolutely think it a crime that we still have open borders to our south. I would fully agree with the "sacrifice" of lives in these cases.

Iraq, Somalia, and Iran are just not worth it in my point of view.

Now let me ask you a question. If establishing a toe hold in the arab world was important, Why isn't Kuwait a democracy? Certainly we had a lot more leverage, and a lot more inclination after the first gulf war. Yet to this day, women can't vote, and they are governed by an Emir.

One last point. Your WWII analogy is without merit. We were attacked in WWII, and it was must win. Iraq was by choice. And ten years after the helicopters lift off from the green zone, it will be commen knowledge that just like in Vietnam the domino theory doesn't hold water.

Winter: Life is about choices.

When you are rich and have all the money in the world like Dubya, you never learn that some things have a cost.

Presidents should always weigh the costs of war vs the benefits. For example, at many times during WWII and the civil war, several thousand men died in a single day. In those cases, the benefit outweighed the cost.

When it comes to Iraq, I, and 70% of your fellow Americans believe the costs exceeds the benefits.

zombeese, you are absolutely correct and I have made mine many times between 1959 and 1991. The 70% you may be referring to aren't in uniform, and they surely are not in my neck of the woods either.
The benefits are unthreatened life, liberty and the pusuit of happiness. Our freedoms are being infringed on now by the late and overreaction methods as pertains to security at home, not abroad.

69.99% of the 70% do not have the slightest idea of what the benifits and the costs are. Or ow to evaluate one against the other. They can not be quantified and have different values to different people. They change also with wether or not you need the votes of those 70% to be in the congress.

Winter: You have the biggest benifits but to some those mean that they have the right to kill babies.

It amazes me and never ceases to confound me how Democrats and Republicans wander around with their heads in defilade, not paying attention until blood has been spilled and the , instead of applying themselves to the task at hand, for whatever reason, contiuously play games and point fingers at each other while people die. Fight, flee, or do something. Should you prefer to do none of the above how about indulging in something that most do any way ....silence.

The Muslims are busy trying to set up a one world government whereby Islam rules with an iron fist, THEOCRACY.

Liberals can't explain why they accuse America of Theocracy, yet do not object to the real threat of the Islamic one. The same liberals that abhor Christianity in American government, loudly praise Muslims entering American government.

Obviously their application of Separation of Church and State is a very prejudicial application exposing who they favor and who they are against. Even a blind fool is not so blind that he cannot see this for what it is.

An expansion of the description..Militaristic Theocracy.

little change of topic here... Planned Parenthood is Evil!!!

Watch this video, and tell me they're not.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=arLMePn7lug&mode=related&search=

I want to hear from the liberals on this one.

Does the term "aiding and abetting" mean anything?

I normally don't feel compelled to use profanity, but I surely am now !!! What the.....

And America's law enforcement is where - again?

Even in California they've learned to use films and various media products to apprehend perpetrators. I'm sure they've altered that fact for the Mexico's illegal aliens, but they sure do bring it out in force against other races. If nothing else, that should anger America's black community with plenty of facts to back up their fight, and not just accusations that only include "they did it to us" with no names attached.

Posted by: zombeese on Jan 21, 07 | 6:59 pm

Liberals like Zombeese only see the war as a side note, GW Bush "rudely" interrupted the Godless Democrat agenda of spending taxpayer dollars to convert the USA to socialism when he "stole" the election from Al Gore. And the Dem "plan for Iraq" was actually completed when the Dems regained control of Congress in the last election, particularly with respect to regaining control of our tax dollars. Minus having to reluctantly take the time to disagree with whatever Bush decides for Iraq in revenge for "stealing" the election from Gore, the Godless Dems are undoubtedly happy to be able to continue where they left off with respect to spending our tax dollars to advance their socialist agenda.

Posted by: wintersoldier on Jan 22, 07 | 1:56 am

Big Red: It is worse than most people would admit.

"Planned Parenthood" is an engine designed to finance the leftists. They give money to get leftists elected. The leftists then screw with public policy to encourage premarital and teenage sex. This causes more unwanted pregnancies, and thus more abortions. This increases the money "Planned Parenthood" has to get more leftists elected who in turn destroy more of the social fabric.

As usual, the leftists can only get ahead by using the blood of the innocent.

Sir Loin, the dialogue was so conspiratorial and IMHO evil, I'm really at a loss for words, which is a rarity for me.

If Hillary The Beast is trying to reincarnate herself as "likeable", I suppose that explains why she announced her candidacy on her website rather than in person. Keep The Beast under wraps until later. Hmmmm?

Here's something almost everyone is missing. Mr. Bush is the commander in chief of the armed forces. Constitutionally, he makes the call on Iraq. In our representative Republic, every policy question is not decided by polls. Nor should they be.

JFair, let us know what else you dig up on Osama's background in Indonesia vis-a-vis the Islamic angle. The problem with having a nation with open borders and an open political system is that it is not difficult for our enemies to infiltrate. We already have one Al Quaeda type in Congress. I hope there isn't one running for the White House.

Sir Loin and Ace, you guys have put your finger on one of the primary reasons that the middle east is a boiling cauldron: the lack of nationalism. By and large, the primary allegience of middle east residents is to a religious sect or tribal affiliation. They are not principally loyal to the country in which they live. I know that liberals all hate nationalism, but a little nationalism would help the middle east situation greatly.

richstacy/tkearns/wintersoldier: Thanks for the continued attempts to extract some semblance of reason from the mind of zombeese with respect to GWB.

For nearly three years now I've read his postings. In many of his arguments he is not wrong and he has a good grasp of many of the issues of the day and world problems. Unfortunately he has two fixations from which he cannot escape: An absolute hatred for GWB and an unwavering belief he is personally responsible for all that is wrong with America and its politics. The only concession he will make to the possible culpability of anyone/group other than GWB is Saudi Arabia. He sees the Saudi government as the embodiment of all the Islamic anger and enmity towards the U.S. and believes its eradication, along with removal of GWB will return us to the Garden of Eden.

All his posts and all his thinking emanate from these two posits. I've not seen him waver in the face of any argument to the contrary.

As knowledgeable as zombeese is, you can note in the latest exchanges that he sees no threat from Iran and does not recognize its strategic importance in controlling the middle east, oil, and leading the shiites to dominance in the Islamic world. Or, perhaps he does, and sees that road leading to the eradication and destruction of Saudi Arabia and the power base of the sunni sect.

As persuasive and logical as your arguments might be, they will not move zombeese.

Osama Obama has really not accomplished anything to justify a presidential bid. He has no identifiable political philosophy. He has nothing more than flash in the pan media appeal. In short, another lightweight. Form over substance.

Sir Loin, the dialogue was so conspiratorial and IMHO evil, I'm really at a loss for words, which is a rarity for me.
Posted by: wintersoldier on Jan 22, 07 | 3:12 am

You're exactly right about Planned Parenthod. Watch this next video, and pay attention to what Carol Everett, the second woman in the video, says about her activities. She admits that her goal was to increase sexual behavior among teenage girls.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3MNI3-oL4Ck

So what is his take on the Confederate flag?

Every 4 years some democrat comes out with his position on an issue that was settled 140 years ago.

Today marks the 34th anniversary of the January 22, 1973, Roe v. Wade decision.

45 million unborn children have been killed in 34 years! :-(

This just shows the sickness of those on the Left who continue to support abortion unconditionally.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/sfl-118trumpflag,0,4622992.story?coll=orl-news-headlines

From the same city that tried to put Rush Limbaugh in jail, we now have the Palm Beach city council voting 6-1 to fine Trump $1250 a day.
Trump has filed a $25 million suit against the city, saying if he wins the lawsuit, he wants any money to go to military members returning from Iraq.

No matter what you think of Donald Trump, I believe he has adopted the correct stance against the insane, godless Left -- laugh at them, ridicule them for their insanity, and intimidate them with their own tactics.
I love it!

Posted by: BobbyGee on Jan 22, 07 | 9:03 am

He sounds like a Shiite to me. I think you just exposed him!

Good work BobbyGee!

I'm waiting for the democrats to impose a Tax, Tax. 1% surcharge or tax added to every dollar of Taxes you are charged.

So let's figure this out.

Borat Obama has never worked a day in the public sector. He probably was not even been born in the USA. He has lied about his family history. He comes from a broken home.

He is an expert at telling people what they want to hear. He has no core beliefs of his own.

He just made a killing in a real estate scam with the assistance of the Syrians and the Nation of Islam. One of his partners has been indicted but Osama skates free.

How many more parrallels can we find with Slick Willie Clinton? Oh yeah, the drive by media is crazy about the guy because of his charisma.

I think we've all seen this one before. I hope America does not swallow the snake oil this one is selling.

Ditto: what is Osama Obama selling? What is his qualifications to be President? Can anyone identify a major accomplishment of his?

Where's the beef?

Same thing can be said about Hillary, I am waiting to hear about her major accomplishments too. The democrat front runners appear to be empty suits.

Now Muslims are demanding a place to pray at football games. How can we be more accommodating?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-0701190254jan19,1,2459251.story?coll=chi-newslocalchicago-hed

I just read that the Prime Minister of Australia issued a statement to the demands of the many Muslims there. Basically saying something like this: "You are welcome here and since you chose to emigrate to Australia, you are free to practice your religion as you wish. However this is Australia and we are Australians. If you are not happy with our laws and customs, you are free to return to the country you came from and practice your laws and customs there as you see fit. We do not intend to change our society to accommodate you."

In other words, you came here no PC/BS

Sir Loin, Point well taken on Carol Everett, one sick puppy and another example of how the teachers and administrators of our school systems are not doing their jobs.
All, are we so desperate that we jump at the first smooth talker that comes along ?
I hope not. the choices we are being given all the way around need some serious looking at and all motives spoken and hidden need to be scrutinized very closely. We all know that, now, we need to make sure we do it.

well now let's see what we have established in the past couple of days:

Hawaii is not a state. People born and raised there are foreigners. Tear up the Constitution.

Religion is genetic so conversion is not possible. Tear up the Bible.

The Court of Public Opinion outweighs the Justice System so abandon the Judicial Branch of the government as unnecessary.

TKEARNS - Obama's father abandoned his mother. Her next man, the step-father had him spend 2 years in a muslim school though nobody seems to know which 2 years - but they were between ages 6 and 10. So it could have been when he was 6 & 7; 7 & 8; 8 & 9; or 9 & 10. The other 2 years while he was with his mother he was in Catholic schools. At 10 he was sent to Hawaii where her parents raised him as a Protestant. It isn't likely he even remembers those 2 years in muslim school and the father who split on them is hardly going to be some major influence on him.

TKEARNS A vote of no confidence or nonbinding resolution means congress twiddled their thumbs and kept spending their paychecks while doing so. You can't come to any conclusion because IT IS A POLITICAL MOVE.

It wasn't MY history. It came from wikipedia. I am satisfied with the report so you will have to do your own research.

"Who is his favorite professor while in school? Will that person become secretary of defense?"

FINALLY two pertinent questions. Why don't you email his staff and ask them?



"This is the stuff movies are made of girl. "

DING DING DING DING DING EXACTLY! How many of you here are living in a movie?


If you think about it TKEARNS Already no president is safe outside the White House. i.e. McKinley, Ford, Reagon, Kennedy. That is why we have the Secret Service.

"Not a boring thread anymore."

TRUE TKEARNS it has gone to hysteria, the sort of mass insanity that feeds assasinations and empowers people like Adolph Hitler.



RICHSTACY - "Huh?? When did I suggest we change the Constitution to prohibit members of any religion from holding office?? Never, that's when."

Well then what does this mean????

" Posted by: richstacy on Jan 19, 07 | 5:39 pm"

Did you mention the Constitution? No. Can we make this change without changing the Constitution? No. I presumed that with your background you are aware that this action would require a change in the document. So now you want us to believe you don't know this? You are pleading temporary insanity, you just forgot about the Constitution?

"I did say that given the current state of affairs, I wouldn't vote for a Muslim."

THAT IS DECIDEDLY NOT WHAT YOU SAID - "Given the state of affairs, I'm seriously against Muslims holding office in the U.S."

"UNPOOR Thanks for sticking up for me, from the newbies, I think... "

Well thankyou for the acknowledgement! The " gentlemen" here were all so rabid , so eager to take me down, they neglected to notice who was the target! The more they misread things the more aggressive they get in trying to twist their way out of the entanglements they get themselves into. They sputter and flap and run around like the rooster whose head lies beside the chopping block and hoping nobody will notice their error if they just make enough noise.

Rich still hasn't noticed the original name-calling was against you and not by me either!

RICH I have to believe that your behavior for the past several days is not indicative of your general demeanor!

Simplistically, BobbyGee MISREAD the post where I defended our colleague UNPOOR against - "Even you could do it and not sound like a blundering neanderthal.Posted by: jurgenwigg on Jan 18, 07 | 1:59 pm"

You jumped in just assuming BobbyGee knew what he was typing. Not only did you jump in with Bobby to attack me for something I never wrote you missed the opportunity to defend Unpoor as well.

WldFlwr: I know, I think Rick has a habit of not reading the posts all the way through before commenting.

Already no president is safe outside the White House. i.e. McKinley, Ford, Reagon, Kennedy. That is why we have the Secret Service.


FYI: You forgot Garfield and TR. They both were shot too while serving.

So perhaps we should let it go as the mistake it was. There are enough other silly things going on here more relevant to the topic.

OKAY - so Rich you didn't mean what you wrote about being against Muslims holding office, you were trying to say you would not vote for one. Well good. Same here.

Although this does smack of the same prejudice John F. Kennedy faced in his bid for the presidency for all those morons who thought the Pope would be running America if we elected Catholics.

But for those againt Muslims in Congress - who is to represent Muslim communities? Are they not entitled to representation? Remember a few million are American born citizens with equal protection under the law land under the Constitution.

Everybody in Chicago knows that this guy is as crooked as the day is long. His shady real estate dealings are just one little piece of the puzzle. There are at least three separate investigations of his illegal campaign contributions from Muslim groups outside the USA. They funneled the money--I heard it's over $250,000--- through some front men in Naperville, IL. I doubt if anything will come from the investigations. If anything does, you can bet the farm that somebody else goes to jail. Not him. The media and the Democrat machine will protect him.

I think it is a fair bet that the Clintons are running background checks on
ALL POTENTIAL CANDIDATES of both parties! All this is a big "so what?"

The only candidate who doesn't have to be "investigated" is Hillary because everyone knows her background already.There probably are no stones unturned in her life.

Since when do 4 or 5 years of childhood do not constitute one's "raising"?

So ACE how much do you remember of being 7 years old? You could save yourself a lot of grief and aggravation by planning to hit the straight ticket for the Repugs and let it go. But wait till their list of candidates comes out! ROFL!

SIR LOIN - Hawaii IS America! Except for 4 or 5 years before he was 10, he spent ALL of his childhood in America!
The founding fathers DID write in a residency requirement - American citizen born on American soil!

"Is it just me or you think this is a major issue with Americans?"

It's just you and a handful of people on blogs. This is NOT going to be an issue with THINKING Americans. He was named by his parents.

It would be an interesting study to know the names of the bloggers here, but also unsafe. A good share are FOREIGNERS if you look at their names.

i.e. Do we really trust the Italians? Weren't they our enemies during WWII?Shouldn't we investigate anyone with an Italian surname and question their loyalty? Aren't all the Italians MAFIA?
Maybe hiding along the Canadian border is for a reason - evading the FBI and the CIA. Nope, can't trust Italians!

What about the Latvian blogger? Latvia was a Russian - do we trust the Russians?

Where does it stop?

..Latvia was a Russian state...

DOES IT NOT OCCUR TO ANY OF YOU THAT THE DEMOCRATS IN ILLINOIS WOULD HAVE INVESTIGATED THIS MAN THOROUGHLY BEFORE GIVING HIM THE NOMINATION TO RUN FOR THE SENATE? AND THEN REPUBLICANS IN ILLINOIS WOULD HAVE DONE EXACTLY THE SAME INVESTIGATING TO OPPOSE HIM IN THE ELECTION THAT SENT HIM TO WASHINGTON? EVERYTHNG THAT CAN BE DUG UP HAS BEEN DUG UP BEFORE.

THE MAN IS A UNITED STATES SENATOR! HE DIDN'T SNEAK IN THE BACK DOOR, HE WAS ELECTED.

"Now where is the proof that he was/is a Muslim? If it exists, that's a biggie for me, but I have yet to see it.'

Bless you Rich! Finally the voice of reason!

Unless you are willing to believe that going to a muslim school when you are 7 years old makes you a muslim, you likely will not see any proof.

This information about Obama being a Muslim would NEVER have come from the Republicans, because they are not afraid of Obama. He is an empty suit who has not accomplishments to discuss, and the only reason he is where he is is because he has caught a great wave.

Hillary is afraid of him because she knows the Democrats worship people with no substance, so he has a shot at the nomination. But anyone the Republicans put up would beat Obama. Even I would beat Obama.

..Latvia was a Russian state...
Posted by: WldFlwr on Jan 22, 07 | 3:22 pm

no, it was Latvian country occupied by the Communist USSR.

The Top 18 Barack Obama Campaign Slogans




18 Barack to the future!

17 Please ignore the Middle-Easterny name.

16 Because the whole "slow-witted Texan with a safe-sounding name" thing didn't work out so well.

15 Face it, America: It's me or the Ice Woman.

14 Once you go Barack, you never go back.

13 Barack: Cultural Learnings of Books and the Enlightenment for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of America

12 Hey, what's the problem? You elected Marion Berry *twice*!

11 Not Hillary Clinton for president.

10 Your last chance for a black president before the country's overrun by Mexicans.

9 Straight Outta Cul-De-Sac

8 He beats Hillary hands down in the bathing suit competition!

7 After our last president, we need another Hussein.

6 Obama: Just pretend he's Irish.

5 Restoring English as the official language of State of the Union addresses.

4 C'mon, you KNOW you want to see Trent Lott piss his pants!

3 America: Movin' on up!

2 It's time for a different B.O. in the White House.

and the Number 1 Barack Obama Campaign Slogan...


As American as an Imam's apple pie!

http://www.topfive.com/barack-obama-campaign-slogans.shtml

here is the site... funny

Barak Obama has a chance, most likely as Hillary's VP candidate.

WINTER Body English can be easily defeated IF the person is aware it is being evaluated.

COLORME careful! You will give all these good old boys apoplexy! They believe this nonsense they are typing. They don't know what a citizen IS much less who is or is not one. They will take your concentration camp crack as a fabulous idea and want to start one right away! The good news of course is they won't want the concentrate camps in their neighborhoods...The next two years will be entertaining provided they don't turn downright dangerous which they easily could given this level of hysteria! I hope these bloggers are just sitting at their computers spouting because we would not want any of these crazies out in their communities actually doing anything!

"....we require proof before we condemn someone. "

Except when Blogger A condemns Blogger B on a mistaken premise and then we take up the cross of A and go after B with a vengeance having checked nothing and being entirely wrong....oh but that's probably different.... Well just so we don't do it again...of course nobody should hold their breath waiting for an apology.

RICH I wouldn't take Sir Loin too seriously. He is still wondering why the Founding Fathers didn't cover this business of residency and hasn't noticed that Hawaii is a state. Gee I wonder if he knows Alaska joined us a while back. What if an Eskimo runs for the Presidency?

"Yes, Neander Thals will be fine as payment.'

Now Bobby that's FUNNY! I wonder what the exchange rate is.

SIR LOIN "I don't believe we are ready enough for a Muslim President."
'
Well good because no muslims are running for the presidency - this time.

"HA! And you have the nuts to chide Wldflwr for being all over the place on an issue. She is right about you...."

WELL SIR LOIN THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT!

Wild, agree and as you say, IF he knows he's being observed. Guess he slipped up a little. Time will tell who's who (Ihope). The sparks are going to fly all over the place as the running get more intense.

Got me to thinking about his picture , so I looked up crossed arms, very interesting. An assumed, not natural pose, designed to be forceful and uncompromising....

I see we're back on topic !! WOW !!

zommbesee says, "...common knowledge that just like in Vietnam the domino theory doesn't hold water."

Zom, tell that to the 2 million Cambodians who died as an indirect result of our leaving Vietnam. If you were one of the ones urging that we bug out of VN, don't forget to take a bow for the deaths of those 2 million dead Cambodian "dominos."

"I got an A in evidence, and in criminal and civil procedure, what did you get?'

Should anybody ask how many decades ago? naaaaah

" Perhaps prehistoric Republicans trashing the planet? ;>} When Mr. gore and his faithful can explain this maybe I'll be less skeptical about global warming."

ROFL!!!!! or hairspray the caveladies used? It's nature, we don't cause it and we can't change it. The best we can do is try to figure out how to live through it. It the Atlantic Ocean is going to rise 20 feet perhaps someone should look at moving the cities from the shores....

"...wouldn't it be atrocous if ... we cleaned up our air and water, decreased dependence on foreign oil, protected fragile ecosystems and conserved non-repenishable planetary resources......ALL FOR NOTHING!!"

These are obviously things we need to try and politics has nothing whatsoever to do with it! Trying to make the preservation of the planet political is ridiculous! And one of the silliest effects of politicizing all of this is the notion that George Bush is against doing all of these things when he works tirelessly to accomplish them. Alarmists are going to make a lot of money with their books and movies and speaking tours. "How I Lost the Presidency When I Won the Popular Vote" wasn't going to sell for long in a country with such a short attention span. As soon as the election is behind us each consecutive fourth January we forget all about the Electoral College.

Excellent points TK, we have to make adjustments and the Democrats have blocked progress as much as any Republican.

One move in our own state has been to those outside furnaces where you can burn wood and/or coal safely. But now the towns and villages are banning them - they don't like the "air pollution". We are going to have to decide what we prefer!

So WINTER - what is going on with the tables beneath Yellowstone? I am far more concerned with that situation than the seashores rising, given my location.

JFAIR of course it is the Democrats trying to discredit him! He is a Democrat running against Hillary Clinton and a handful of others. The Democrats are busy discrediting each other - period. They are like a sack of cats and it is going to stay that way. WHY should the Republicans give it a single thought? They will run against whoever wins.

"And if you think Guiliani has no skeletons in his closet, then you are probably delusional."

What closet? He tried to move a mistress into the official manor while he was still married to his wife who refused to move out. That was all buried with the rubble of 9-11 but it will come back up to haunt him.

".. they would never be able to give allegiance to the Constitution first, because the Koran and Islamic law always come first"

The same can be said of Christians. The difference is that our Constitution is written on Christian principles so we do not have conflicts between religion and the law of the land that other religions could have. So long as we do not go making a lot of changes to the Constitution that water down the principles or outright distort them then Christians can live safely in this country. Those Christian principles written into our law are what allow the Jews to live here and flourish safely as well.

There is, however, always the possibility changes will be made in our laws making it no longer possible for Jews and Christians to stay live here safely. Theoretically with 80% of the population claiming to be Christian the immediate future should be secure.

wld, here's something for you to ponder: That I'm against Muslims holding office in the U.S. doesn't mean I'm for changing anything, certainly NOT the Constitution. What it does mean is, that given the current state of affairs, I won't be voting for any Muslims to fill any office. How arrogant of you to interpret MY thoughts to suit your conclusions! If I think the constitution should be amended, I will say so -- otherwise, please keep YOUR assumptions to yourself and don't attribute them to me.

Yeah wld, that would have been four decades ago, followed by a very long career in the law which included teaching evidence and trial practice to new prosecutors and police officers for more than 30 years. To say nothing of thousands of hours in the court room. and thousands more in the grand jury room.

Besides, I thought you LIKED my conclusion that there was no evidence that Obama was a Muslim. Oh wait, I get it, no one but retired military are qualified to render an opinion on the war, but I can't give an opinion on an evidentiary matter despite 40 years experience in the field, huh?

"The same can be said of Christians. "
In my opinion, you are just flatly wrong about that.

richstacy on Jan 21, 07 | 9:41 pm

EXCELLENT POST!

Well thanks wld, I still think we agree on more than what we disagree on.

Zombeese figure out how to close over 2,000 miles of border with Mexico and go do it. This should keep you out of trouble quite a while.

And you might want to check up on the assetts of our leaders. This President is way way down the line in personal assetts and we pay our president a pittance compared to any other administrator in the country.

"70% of your fellow Americans believe the costs exceeds the benefits. "

Well good for you but the people actually paying that cost disagree with you. The military believes in what they are doing. We have a volunteer military and not only do you not see them getting out as fast as they can recruitment levels remain steady.

There was a shift in strategy when Petraeus left the the command for Leavenworth and the strykker occupation approach has been a disaster. Now he is going back in and with some luck he will be able to rebuild the ties he had developed before and bring things back around to where they were before and then move forward. The men serving with him absolutely supported the things they were doing and the progress they were making. He wasn't a popular commander in a personal sense but he had a vision and it was supported.

So Zombeese when did Germany attack us?

"Presidents should always weigh the costs of war vs the benefits."

Well you have not been paying attention! Do you watch the presidential addresses?

" For example, at many times during WWII and the civil war, several thousand men died in a single day. In those cases, the benefit outweighed the cost. '

Says who? You? Well I don't happen to agree with you considering how WWII turned out!

Our WWII enemies are supposedly our friends although I don't think for a minute they are. Our allies are our enemies. The Germans and the French have comingled military units - so we made all those sacrifice for what? The Japanese were so successfully rebuilt - by us - they are swamping us economically.

The Civil War depends on which side you prefer. The South is still not admitting the North "won" and there is a very bitter taste for a lot of families who lost men in that war! It's still being fought on many levels. And the blacks didn't get anything close to freedom till the late 1900s and they still do not have total equality today!

Wild, not the tables beneath Yellowstone, but the volcanic actions beneath two of the continent's largest oceans. I believe I posted on that subject before, natural pollutants versus manmade ones.
Yellowstone has its ups and downs (a bit of humor)
Rich, The military is not sancrosanct, retired or otherwise when it comes to opinions on the war, being closer to it and in it and being direct recipients of its ongoing and after effects, put the clothes on our backs and we have to wear them.
When we get to the point of virtual warfare, where everything is on a scoreboard that may be adjusted, we will discontinue being so "sensitive".

SIR LOIN just exactly WHO liberals are rejoicing over muslims in government? Names? There is only ONE muslim in Congress and he was elected by the people he represents.

MONTEGO you really surprise me. There is no reaso to suppose the one muslim in Congress is "an al qaida type". That's really over the top! And you expect JFAIR to do the research?

"I hope there isn't one running for the White House"

Not unless the original Christian denomination in this country circa 1620 has joined Islam.

"..a little nationalism would help the middle east situation greatly."

Then, Montego, you would have been very pleased with the Iraqi colonel who, when asked which sect he belonged to, said he is IRAQI.

"As persuasive and logical as your arguments might be, they will not move zombeese."

and that is unfortunate since he is fighting the wrong enemy on both counts.

"He has no identifiable political philosophy. He has nothing more than flash in the pan media appeal. In short, another lightweight. Form over substance."

Well if this is true, Montego, there is no cause for alarm or even for concern. He will be one more also-ran for the nomination.

UNPOOR the Civil War was not settled 140 years ago or the flag controversy would not be on-going.

DITTO I guess you have not done any reading even on this blog:

"After receiving his Bachelors of Arts degree in 1983, Obama worked for one year at Business International Corporation. In 1985, he moved to Chicago to direct a non-profit project assisting local churches to organize job training programs for residents of poor neighborhoods.

Obama entered Harvard Law School in 1988. In February 1990, he gained national recognition for becoming the first African American to be elected president of the Harvard Law Review. He obtained his Juris Doctor degree magna cum laude from Harvard in 1991. On returning to Chicago, Obama directed a voter registration drive, then worked for the civil rights law firm Miner, Barnhill & Galland, and taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1993 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004."

He was born in Honolulu, Hawaii which, so far as we all know, is a STATE.

"He has no core beliefs of his own."

One's core belief are generally conisidered to be one's religion. He belongs to the church founded by the Pilgrims at Plymouth Rock in 1620. That's a fairly solid core.

Why do I think you get your info from the Repug version of the DemUnderground?

Odd, most people would consider serving in the United States Senate some sort of accomplishment and experience.

Windy City your city is known across the nation as a hotbed of criminals in politics. Nothing new. Nothing surprising. It's fairly well understood honest men don't get elected in Chicago.

"Barak Obama has a chance, most likely as Hillary's VP candidate."

very likely DARRYL. I said the same thing three days ago.


"An assumed, not natural pose, designed to be forceful and uncompromising...."

All that is missing is the hand in tucked in between two buttons.


RICHSTACY : "How arrogant of you to interpret MY thoughts to suit your conclusions!"

A simple declarative sentence requires no 'interpretation'. What is arrogant is you believing you can worm your way back out of a statement you made by implying some highhanded intent that just isn't there. You wrote:

"I'm seriously against Muslims holding office in the U.S."

"I" personal pronoun, nominative case, first person singular

" [am] form of the v. "to be" present tense used as an auxilliary verb

"seriously" - adverb modifies the v. against - v.singular

"Muslims holding office" phrase used as the object of the v. against

"in the U.S." prepositional phrase modifying the v against indicating where


IT JUST DOES NOT GET ANY SIMPLER. RICH you might consider taking a writing course. If you had any other intention you did not manage to convey it.

PAUL, perhaps you could help the poor fellow out here. He seems to have a problem expressing his thoughts per the English language.

RICH the only error in my conclusion was that you would be aware that the Constitution would need to be ammended to suit your limitations of the civil rights of the members of an entire religion, one of the major religions of mankind. How silly of me. Personally I don't think it will fly and you should just go back to not voting for them.

And just to play it safe you might want to avoid voting for anyone with a 'funny' name like an Italian name, or a French name, or a German name, or ....wait a minute - none of those are religions so I guess the prejudice is religious not ethnic.

UNPOOR "Barack to the future!'

hey that would fit on a bumpersticker!

,,,and what does anyone think of Elmer Brownback's chances of becoming the next president?

He's got the credentials that many of you should be orgasiming over.

What do you think?

Does Elmer have a chance?

" Oh wait, I get it, no one but retired military are qualified to render an opinion on the war, but I can't give an opinion on an evidentiary matter despite 40 years experience in the field, huh?
.."

And if nothing else works try changing the subject. THAT WASN'T AN OPINION ON THE WAR NOR WAS IT AN EVIDENTIARY MATTER blah blah blah
It was a statement of your preference to deny an entire religion the right to hold office in this nation. Muslims......US do try to focus.

and are you bragging or complaining?

Well just so long as somebody else was available to draft your decisions so they would read as you intended them. Wouldn't want anyone misinterpreting a simple sentence.

RICH we always agree on more than we disagree. Only when you go off on the primrose path following a lost blogger do we clash. And then when you decide you can play one-upsman with me. I guess you are accustomed to a lot of @$$kissing you just won't get from some quarters. I respect you for your experience and your knowledge, but not your games.

"The same can be said of Christians. "
In my opinion, you are just flatly wrong about that.Posted by: richstacy on Jan 22, 07 | 5:27 pm

Well now if the LIBERALS take control they will try to remove religion from this nation. They have been chipping away at our freedoms for years. In Colorado Springs when we lived there in the late 80s it was illegal to ring a churchbell and absolutely verboten to put up a creche on public property in December. That isn't so very far from restricting the practice of religion when they interfer with the pealing of the bells in the church towers. Fortunately the major churches have abandoned the tolling of the angelis.
And if the Liberals overrun things to the point of interfering with the practice of the faith then we do have a problem. Hopefully none of us will live so long as to see it come to this but our children certainly may have to learn to practice their faith underground in America.

Yellowstone has its ups and downs (a bit of humor)

LOL

Gotta do it..off topic Iran has kicked the nucular inspection teams out of Iran and ignored resolutions on nucular production from the UN. Not to worry, though, their intentions are honorable and they probably don't have or don't conceive of putting together any nucular weapons in the future. Though Ahminejad has already stated thet the destruction of Israel and the US is one of his main goals. (I gather most of us forgot that statement) No matter, let's keep putting up with all of this horse manure and maybe we'll all grow corn out of our ears.(seeing as we don't listen, use them for something with purpose)

"And then when you decide you can play one-upsman with me." Gee wld, and I thought that was your game. always the last word wld, right?

"Well now if the LIBERALS take control they will try to remove religion from this nation. "

They may try, but they didn't succeed the last few times they were in control did they? I doubt if they ever will.

and no wild you are not reading the posts, the subject was lack of evidence to show that Obama was in fact a Muslim. that was the issue.

I learned noting from tis blog today. Children playing games.

montego, wld says, "MONTEGO you really surprise me. There is no reaso to suppose the one muslim in Congress is "an al qaida type". That's really over the top! And you expect JFAIR to do the research?"
As much as I hate to agree with her, she is absolutely right. once again, If you have any evidence that this guy is an "al Qaeda type," lets see it. Other wise the accusation is so far over the top that it destroys the credibility of the legitimate gripes about he guy.

wld, as I say, you are the game player, much more so than any other poster here. You must have the last word or else, no matter what. That's pretty sick. "A simple declarative sentence requires no 'interpretation'. " Even after you have definitively lost the argument, you still try to interpret someone else's meaning. Why don't you interpret your own damn posts and let me interpret mine.

If you son't understand what I mean, then ask. don't jump to you own toatally mistaken conclusion and ascribe it to me.

I do not favor amending the U.S. Constitution except in the most compelling and unusual circumstances. That would never include depriving any particular class or minority of civil rights. That doesn't mean I have to EVER vote for anyone or any group that I deem harmful to the nation. I don't vote for Muslims and I don't vote for Democrats. I am opposed to either of them holding public office, because its bad for the country. You vote for who you want, and let me vote for who I want, OK?

"RICH the only error in my conclusion was that you would be aware that the Constitution would need to be ammended to suit your limitations of the civil rights of the members of an entire religion, one of the major religions of mankind. How silly of me. Personally I don't think it will fly and you should just go back to not voting for them.

And just to play it safe you might want to avoid voting for anyone with a 'funny' name like an Italian name, or a French name, or a German name, or ....wait a minute - none of those are religions so I guess the prejudice is religious not ethnic.

Posted by: WldFlwr on Jan 22, 07 | 7:38 pm"

This is what I mean wld -- pure game playing, baiting and nonsenseon your part. Even though you know your premise is totally false, you deliberately persist in perpetuating a falsehood. Have you ever apologized for being a jerk? No I didn't think so. You have too much fun being mean, putting someone else down, and watching the reaction. Gives you some sort of sense of power I guess. Pitiful.

I really don't deserve that kind of treatment from you. No one does.

wld says, "The South is still not admitting the North "won"
Really wld? I was born in the south, both my parents were from the south. I know a couple hundred people from the south from just about all socio-economic strata -- and I don't know a single one who doesn't know that the North very definitely won the Civil War. A few still resent it, but they darn well know who won that war.

zommbesee says, "...common knowledge that just like in Vietnam the domino theory doesn't hold water."


Iraq is nothing like Vietnam, these guys can follow us home.

So Obama was a crack-smoking muslim?

This is getting ridiculous. He should drop out now.

After reading through the posts that actually deal with the topic, I still can't see a radical muslim allowing his son to convert to Christianity.'If this is ture; every muslim will have a fatwa out to kill him.

Although I have no doubt any radical muslim would love to kill him. Obama converted from islam to atheism, and from his past comments, I get the sense Obama is still atheist but joined a Christian church because of his wife. To paraphrase one statement I read last week, there are certain things in Christianity he believes. Basically, he's just along for the ride and the political points.

richstacy@12:30 AM on 1/23/07:

You finally have WldFlwr figured out.

wintersoldier: Yep. We'll pretend Iran is not a problem right up to the point where they become a 'clear and present danger' with some overt act of aggression against a vital interest of ours. Then we'll scurry about trying to figure out what to do while the spineless politicians plead for understanding and 'no more war'.

The cumulative effects of Vietnam and now Iraq are taking a dreadful toll on our willingness to take MEANINGFUL military action against even those who make it clear they are our enemy and will do us harm wherever they can.

North Korea, Iran and now even Venezuela are provoking the 'toothless' tger as they see it. And waiting in the wings is Russia, just waiting to get even.

When we finally wake up it will be a doozy of a battle and the outcome is far from certain.


WldFlwr: While paul is teaching English Composition to richstacy perhaps he can teach you how to spell, or at least use a dictionary.

Or maybe not. "orgasiming" Hmmm. Perhaps in froggy's dictionary (remember him ?), but not in any I have access to. (oops ! I ended a sentence with a preposition. How bad ! )

It seems we are now reduced to criticizing the sentence construction of others from a technical viewpoint even though we clearly get the message.

I seem to recall your passionately defending a couple of bloggers (since 'departed') guilty of atrocious massacre of the English language.

There may be one or two professional writers on this blog but most of us are garden variety and come with all the inabilities inherent within such a group.

While we can be constructively critical of each others opinions, do we really have to get into pointing out language composition errors ?

Or spelling such as "ammending" ;^)

Jewish organizations are reporting through their extensive background checks that Obama's father was a member of the Wahab sect of muslims (the same sect as Saddam Hussein and one of the most violent, not that they all aren't violent). At any rate, I would like to see him refute his father's background in public. So far, we know he admits he attended a muslim school at one time. What type of beliefs filled his head as a child?

I'm with my Jewish friends on this one. In their case, it pays to be paranoid. We should take a page out of their book on this one. They claim he's dirty. It's enough for me.

wld, as I say, you are the game player, much more so than any other poster here. You must have the last word or else, no matter what. Posted by: richstacy on Jan 23, 07 | 12:17 am

Rich; You have just noticed that?... that is what her thing is... take anything anyone says and turns it regardless if it is left or right, she just blindly argues. She is always right because she is ‘in the know’ because she has a couple of Gomers in her family. Whatever....

Rich, here what you do, just take one of her posts and start turning the words, anyone can do it.

Wild and Rich, the new congressman from Minnesota (Ellison) has clear links to Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam. He has also got financial links to CAIR, which we all know is nothing but a fundraising group for terrorists. Thus, my comment that he was an Al-Quaeda type is part fact and part euphemism, since his philosophy is unadulterated anti-American and anti-Israel, as revealed in his campaign against the Republican candidate who was also Jewish. Wild, I commend the Iraqi colonel and I am not wringing my hands over Obama. I doubt he is a serious threat to win the presidency this time. Most especially because the Clinton attack machine will destroy him in the end.

While being interviewed in Senate hearings today, General Petraeus responded to Senator McCain's questioning by saying the Democratic resolution to show "Non-support for the war would both demoralize the troops, and encourage the enemy. So, no new news there. This is exactly what the Democrats have been doing to HELP with the war effort for approximately 5 years now! But remember THEY ARE PATRIOTIC TOO!

Additionally McCain asked Petraeus: "Suppose we send you over to your new job, general, only we tell you that we can't have — you can't have any additional troops. Can you get your job done?"

"No, sir," Petraeus replied.

Will this matter to the Democrats? Wake up! You are dreaming if you think these scumbags have even one iota's concern for the well being of our troops, or ANY hope for the success of their efforts. Absolutely ALL THAT MATTERS is that they continue their WAR ON BUSH, the country be damned.

These yellow bellied power whores, currently being led by HILLROD Clinton, will always put the true priorities and security of America at the bottom of the list of their concerns for the ramifications of their words and actions. They continually PROVE, without a doubt, they are no better than traitors to God and country.

At the same hearing today, God's gift to the snot nosed, know it all Drive By Media: HILLROD Clinton called the policy of increasing troops "a dead end" and vowed to send a message to the Iraqis that they "cannot rely on the blood and treasure of Americans any longer."

Actually Mrs. HILLROD... your message goes straight to the enemy, who are the encouraged- once again by your ilk! It goes straight to our troops, who are once again going to learn that they are not only fighting for the security of current and future generations of Americans, but they are also fighting for a bunch of ungrateful cut and run politicians.

Hillary Clinton.... you are a political WHORE!

Note: As is typical going into the State of The Union tonight, the Drive By Media is doing their typical PRE-QUEL to the speech. "The Bush sky is falling! There is absolutely NOTHING to be happy about. Only Democrats can save you!"

wow Ace - how much do you remember of what you learned from ages 6-10?Posted by: WldFlwr on Jan 19, 07 | 1:46 am

Well for one thing most of us learned to read...

See Rich, she is cabable of making dumbass comments too.

PAUL Elmer Brownback has a shot at the White House if all other candidates selfl-destruct.

WINTER "Iran has kicked the nucular inspection teams out of Iran and ignored resolutions on nucular production from the UN."

This sounds vaguely familiar.

"I still can't see a radical muslim allowing his son to convert to Christianity."

It was NOT HIS FATHER. HIS FATHER split. The mother was with another man so it was a step-father. How much influence any step parent has depends on a lot of variables. 10 year olds don't "convert" to anything. His father was never part of his life.

Well proof positive that a vacuum will be filled. The leftist cabal leaves and a handful of rightwingers rush in like muddy water to fill the void. Isn't it nice we can count on some things.

"I get the sense Obama is still atheist but joined a Christian church because of his wife"

Interesting point. Look around you next Sunday and see how many husbands are yawning and wishing they were on the links or the slope or watching TV.


BOBBYGEE - "orgasiming" Hmmm."

THAT WAS NOT IN MY POST~! That was "paul on Jan 22, 07 | 7:45 pm" So you are still misreading.

How much influence any step parent has depends on a lot of variables. 10 year olds don't "convert" to anything. His father was never part of his life.
Posted by: WldFlwr on Jan 23, 07 | 1:39 pm

What is your source for this?

Such a consolation - another scientific principle proven. The leftwing cabal leaves and a handful of flaming rightwingers rush in like muddy water to fill the void. How reassuring. The universe will remain in balance.

Now if they will only figure out where the post is in relation to the poster's name.....so they can stop attributing things to the wrong people...

When discussing strategies to defeat the enemy with a bunch of demoncraps, nothing will dissuade them from believing that you are not talking about the GOP. As long as liberals have power, they will be setting up our troops for slaughter in order to embarrass conservatives and live out their '60s fantasy.

Hillary Clinton Drops Madrassa Bomb on Barack Obama
Monday, January 22, 2007

The gloves are off: Hillary Clinton is reported to be already digging up the dirt on Barack Obama.

The New York senator has reportedly outed Obama's madrassa past. That's right, the Clinton team is reported to have pulled out all the stops to reveal something Obama would rather you didn't know: that he was educated in a Muslim madrassa.

I was criticized on this show for outing Obama as a smoker, but look at what some anti-Obama Democrats are doing to her political rival now. They are playing the Muslim phobia card.

Is this just the beginning? Is the Obama honeymoon officially over? What other dirty little secrets will come out as they battle it out in the race for the White House?

This is a sad story. I am afraid that our country is going down the tubes faster than most of us realize. We are electing Islamofascists to Congress. We have emboldened them to the point that one of them is seriously being promoted for the presidency. OMG. He won't win but our resistence is being worn down.

The media and the protestors have worn us down on Iraq and the war on terror. The average man on the street is bombarded with bad news so often he has no choice but to believe the fantasies dreamed up by the media. Consequently, Bush looks like an idiot and the Democrats sweep to power. When does it all stop? Who knows. I don't think it will stop.

more from the story...

Terry, this is appearing on a Web site today, Insight magazine, which is a subsidiary of The Washington Times. Here's the question. I'll put it up on the screen: Barack's madrassa past. He says that "during the five years that we would live with my stepfather in Indonesia, I was sent first to a neighborhood Catholic school and then to a predominately Muslim school." That's from his book, "The Audacity of Hope."

Now in the meantime, this is what Democrats are saying, according to Insight magazine. They're looking into his background. They're saying: He was a Muslim. He concealed it. His opponents within the Democrats hope this will become a major issue in the campaign.

Now, we have heard about dirty politics before. Republicans aren't involved in this one. What do you think about what's going on over there?

TERRY HOLT, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: John, the last time I checked, there was still a freedom of religion in this country. And this is either a despicable act by an absolutely ruthless Clinton political machine. We know that they are capable of doing this. But it wasn't directly linked to Hillary Clinton. If it wasn't her, then certainly she should disavow it because I think we have spent an awful lot of time in this country trying to tamp down anti-religious sentiments.

But you know, it's also, if you took a page out of the Clinton book and you are really shrewd and you were Barack Obama, you might want to put this out yourself so that you could deal with it early in the political campaign and get it over with. I don't know.

GIBSON: Let me show you what the press secretary to U.S. Senator Barack Obama said today in a statement about this story. They said: "The idea that Senator Barack Obama attended some radical Islamic school is completely ludicrous. Senator Obama is a committed Christian and attends the United Church of Christ in Chicago."

Nonetheless Terry, what damage does it do to Obama to have the word madrassa attached to his name?

HOLT: Well, I think that Barack Obama is such a white-hot political property right now that I'm not sure that it does any long-term damage. He may have to explain this, but, you know, Obama's story is unique to the political field at this point having been educated overseas.

I would also point out that a madrassa before it was politicized and really taken over by the fundamentalists primarily from Saudi Arabia, it was nothing more than a parochial school, and Barack Obama was in school 40 years ago. So I'm not sure that this is a campaign killer, but it does, I think, maybe put on him the burden of explanation, a little bit more about his bio.

GIBSON: Terry, this is a hotly contested race. Senator Clinton thought she had it in the bag and that she was the nominee already. He's made a surprise run at her. Does this give his team a warning of what sort of things are coming before he could possibly capture the nomination?

HOLT: Absolutely. You know, the Clinton team and the machine, make no mistake, it's still in place. They used to call themselves the masters of disaster. And if Barack Obama gets into the race against Clinton, I think that he can count on no small amount of disaster being forced upon him by running against one of the most effective and one of the most negative political machines ever assembled in this country.

But you know what? If you're going to run for president, you have to be prepared for everything and anything to be thrown at you, and in many ways voters are looking not so much for the facts about what you have done in your past, but really how do you handle it? Do you handle it with poise? Do you handle it with honesty and dignity? If he handles this well I'm not sure that this puts him in a corner he can't escape from.

GIBSON: Terry Holt on the madrassa bomb dropped on Barack Obama. Terry, thanks very much.

HOLT: Thanks, John.

Adam Yoshida writes about the "problems" with Barack Obama:

I think that someone whose name is one letter removed from “Osama” and whose farther was a Moslem will obviously be starting with some serious disadvantages. And, while I’m at it, I’ll also ad that there are (unconfirmed) rumours that Obama himself is secretly a Muslim. Now, I don’t believe them but, if Obama ever runs for President, I won’t mind spreading them.

Bobbygee, re figuring wld out, yep I finally did, I'm just slower than most.

In a great post, you said, "The cumulative effects of Vietnam and now Iraq are taking a dreadful toll on our willingness to take MEANINGFUL military action against even those who make it clear they are our enemy and will do us harm wherever they can. North Korea, Iran and now even Venezuela are provoking the 'toothless' tiger as they see it. And waiting in the wings is Russia, just waiting to get even."

Very succinctly put! And absolutely correct. It is amazing to me that so many, including apparently even G.W Bush (who IMHO, comes on with too little too late to turn this thing around) can see this undeniable truth. As you suggest, we will eventually have to face major war to rectify our timidity. Given our conduct, both now and in Vietnam, one could hardly blame our enemies for seeing us as a paper tiger.

Re ending a sentence with a preposition, remember that Churchill said, "...[that] is a practice, up with which we simply cannot put."

Rich, Wildflower... This is what I have been saying all along... and the Solmalis that work for me (about 25 of them) here all feel that Obama is a Muslim!

Barack Hussein Obama: Once a Muslim, Always A Muslim

Many months ago, readers began asking me whether Barack Obama is Muslim. Since he identifies as a Christian, I said, "no," and responded that he was not raised by his Kenyan father.

But, then, I decided to look further into Obama's background. His full name--as by now you have probably heard--is Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. Hussein is a Muslim name, which comes from the name of Ali's son--Hussein Ibn Ali. And Obama is named after his late Kenyan father, the late Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., apparently a Muslim.

And while Obama may not identify as a Muslim, that's not how the Arab and Muslim Streets see it. In Arab culture and under Islamic law, if your father is a Muslim, so are you. And once a Muslim, always a Muslim. You cannot go back. In Islamic eyes, Obama is certainly a Muslim. He may think he's a Christian, but they do not.

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2006/12/barack_hussein.html

BobbyGee: Thank you very much for what you wrote about me. I take much of it as a complient.

You are correct regarding my feelings towards saudi arabia. I saw 9/11 with my own eyes, and I can not help feel that the Saudi royal family, or parts therein, had something to do with it. Whether its projection or deduction, something is rotten in Denmark.

As for Bush, I really do not hate him. I do feel he is incompetent. But if I died, and I had to leave my children with someone, I'd pick Dubya over Slick Willie.

I find it even more interesting that I am called a liberal on this blog. To paraphrase Ronald Wilson Reagan [best POTUS of my lifetime]; I did not leave the conservative movement, they left me. Above all else I am a patriot - first, last, and always.

Did you hear about the health proposal in Bush's speech. Its a new income tax! Health benefits are not currently taxed as income. Under the Bush plan they would become taxable income. Individuals ($7500) and families ($15000) would get a new deduction from the new tax. Approx 20-30 million Americans (the republican base) will pay the new income tax.

A pox on Bush.

montego, I agree that he is tied to Louie Farrakan, etc, and that he is anti American. I have the same use for him you do. I just don't know of any direct link to al Qaeda, which is after all, not the only bad organization in the world.

ACE my source? Psych, Social Work, Sociology, and LIVING in the United States in the Babyboom Generation.

Around half of the marriages in this culture end in divorce. Of that group at least half marry again. That's a lot of step-parents and step-children.

And I have the advantage of being a woman in the Babyboomer generation. Ever wonder what the ladies are talking about in the kitchen while the guys are watching football and snoozing off the turkey in the livingroom at those family dinners?

Women talk about their relationships, their marriages and their ex-marriages and their children and grandchildren, their siblings and aging parents - their relationships. Men talk about 'facts'. More than one comedian has said 'not necessarily true facts, but facts'. They talk politics, the economy, sports. When was the last time you and the guys had a heart-to-heart over the pool table and a beer about your relationships?

There were no divorces on either side of my family in my parents' generation. My mother was born in 1919 and my father in 1920. If you are in their generation you probably don't know what I am talking about. But then along came the Baby-Boomer cousins. Of the 32 of us HALF are divorced true to stats, half of those are remarried, some more than once.

I also raised one of those "blended families". If you want to research it look that term up. At least half of everyone I know has a "blended family". The Brady Bunch was NOT realistic! When I went back to college as a single mom there were a lot of other single moms on campus! Every woman I know who raised a "blended family" had a lot of animosity to deal with between the two sets; the animosity of the stepkids toward second husbands deserved or otherwise; and the emotional damage from the separation from the fathers. The step-fathers rarely get very close to the kids at least not before they turn 30 -by which time Obama's step-father was also way gone from his life. If it turns out all nicey-nice well GREAT!

I had the advantage or disadvantage of having an ex who just left. He paid his child support but he wasn't heard from or seen much as Obama's father. My ex is still alive and reasonably well but he really has very little in the way of relationships with our adult kids. He has a second family too. And those kids are not close to the older set.

So that is my source. Don't believe me? Look around you, ask around. Not everything has to come from a book or a magazine. Good old fashioned LIVING can be a reality check. Just remember that the generations experience life differently.

Not only is our country a paper tiger, it is becoming the land of the spineless and the home of the dove. A Republican president cannot conduct a war without following the rules of political correctness.

A Republican president appoints a hawk as Secretary of State and she promptly becomes a spineless dove.

A Republican president cannot count on the support of a majority of the congressional delegation of his own party to prosecute a war on terror against the most implacable zealots that America has ever faced.

A Republican president is cowed by the media into not using the accurate term 'Islamofascist' to describe our sworn enemies. It is the end of the world as we know it.

UNPOOR Hillary was on the Today Show talking out of the other side of her mouth sounding very much like a Republican. Figures.

Hillary won't dig up anything more than has already been dug up on Obama, she will just put spin on it so it sounds like some new revelation. And most people will fall all over it which plays right into her hands. You think the Illinois political machine didn't dig everything up?

"When does it all stop?"

When the real idiots shut up and the thinking people get their feet on the ground and speak up.

So none of you here are parents or grandparents? Maybe you were all absent fathers who didn't raise your own kids? Unless the muslims had a really slick dinosaur presentation for their ideas or they taught islamic warfare with light sabres it wouldn't sink. CHECK out this age group! over 4 under 10. Talk to your own grandkids or the neighbor kids and see how savvy they are in religion and politics. Most might regurgitate the Pledge of Allegiance or their bedtime prayerse but ask them what it means!

"I’ll also ad that there are (unconfirmed) rumours that Obama himself is secretly a Muslim. Now, I don’t believe them but, if Obama ever runs for President, I won’t mind spreading them."

Well now thankyou for your honesty VIP!

Sadly most of the people on this blog will believe anything you type so you can start right here. WHAT AMAZES ME is how the ANTI-CLINTON people are playing right into their hands on all of this! If they don't trust the Clintons then why are they so quick to believe everything?

So do you all think the man should CHANGE HIS NAME? What would that accomplish?

Maybe he could bleach that black face and while he's at it have those ears repaired by a good plastic surgeon.

Once German always always nazi? Once Italian always greasy? It's mindless prejudice.

IF that is how the arabs and muslims see it, that his name defines him, then he is THEIR ENEMY and they will dispatch him forthwith for you. Solves your problem.

Oh back to Debbie Schlussel - GERMAN AGAIN. neonazi? Must be, it's a nazi name.

ZOMBEESE I have been recently re-assigned as a Liberal on the blog.

Everyone on here considers himself/herself a patriot.

A DEDUCTION IS SUBTRACTED FROM THE GROSS INCOME SO IT REDUCES THE TAX OBLIGATION! It is NOT added to the tax total! So you end up paying taxes on a small income.

ACE unless you were asking my source in Obama's father splitting and his step-father having short-lived influence. They came from the bio in Wikipedia.

If you kids are done playing consider this.
1. Today another fleging democraticy has bit the dust. Since Hamas won the last war with the help of those that are helpling iraq, Lebenon will soon be a Muslim nation. Once the Isralies left lebenon the terriosts are taking over.

2. Al Quada has put out their third message this month agreeing with the postulations that the d's have put into the congress all week.

3. All of our enemys are now goading the paper tiger because they know that the d's and anti wars will not relent.

Solution: The president tonight should announce that we will not leave Iraq in this century. Just like Korea, Germany and Japan. We will assist Iraq to become a capitalistic country like Japan, south Korea GErmany and even VN to a certain extent. VN may be communist but its ecomony is demorcratic and we have a good inroad to the econpmy of VN.

The president should state that he will huddle with all the democrats in secret and come up with a way forward that all members of congress agree will work in secret. At the end of those considerations he will announce the way forward and it will be just like the bypartisan ISG. Everybody will agree and will march hand and hand in itw execution.
The very existance of this country as we know it is at stake. How long do we have to allow its decline because of petty politics.
If i were the potus I would say that he should say if you go with me the next 4 years we will give the d's the presedentcy in 2008 and we will take the congress. We will do our job in the congress and allow you to do the presidents job. 1012 will depend on how well you do from 08 to 12.

And while Obama may not identify as a Muslim, that's not how the Arab and Muslim Streets see it. In Arab culture and under Islamic law, if your father is a Muslim, so are you. And once a Muslim, always a Muslim. You cannot go back. In Islamic eyes, Obama is certainly a Muslim. He may think he's a Christian, but they do not.

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2006/12/barack_hussein.html

Posted by: Sir Loin on Jan 23, 07 | 2:05 pm

Wild: Forget it, the only thing you like to site is more of your own homegrown BS. Sirloin found it for us. Thanks Sirloin.

-Ace

Posted by: tkearns on Jan 23, 07 | 3:53 pm

The democrats want the US to loose to punish Bush for beating Gore. Their only goal is to gain power. Suprised?

Well this should blow some gussetts here with those reeking with prejudice against the Hispanics:

General Chairman of the Republican Party is Senator Mel Martinez.

Ace: In light of current Democratic strategy, not only do they have to work to now destroy the Bush economy, and further attempt to socialize the country, they are committed to banging the WE CAN'T WIN THIS WAR DRUM.
They absolutely LOVE destroying the efforts of the President and our military to serve and protect. True POLITICAL Whores!

Posted by: WldFlwr on Jan 23, 07 | 4:11 pm

Obama needs to wrap this election up soon, next time around the President will most likely be Hispanic. and the blacks will loose their opportuiy forever.

The media is giving each other circle jerks over this guy. He has done nothing for Illinois, except smoke crack, snort coke and smoke weed. He doesnt acknowledge his white mama, doesnt acknowledge that he was muslim and comes from a muslim background etc. What else is he hiding??

I dont trust him at all.
BEWARE BEWARE BEWARE

TKEARNS I called Ron's D.C. office today and they say the primary focus of the address tonight is expected to be the economy not the war. That's a surprise. He will be with an injured soldier from our district. Ron has supported the mission in Iraq all along, has made several trips to Iraq and thus far is supporting finishing the job properly! Whether he can stand against party pressure I don't know. Time will tell.

It was shocking when Al Q announced their pleasure with our elections. That should have given everyone a chill. But I guess it didn't.

Hillary was saying this morning we have a vested interest in Iraq and we must follow through. But that was on one show and she probably was saying the opposite on other broadcasts.

We have to get Petreus back in there and hope he can undo some of the damage if not all from those who took over when he rotated. If they will turn him loose he might be able to accomplish his original mission.

Liz Cheney Nails It... Every point is simple, direct and true.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/22/AR2007012201103.html

Two important points from the article...

· Quitting helps the terrorists. Few politicians want to be known as spokesmen for retreat. Instead we hear such words as "redeployment," "drawdown" or "troop cap." Let's be clear: If we restrict the ability of our troops to fight and win this war, we help the terrorists. Don't take my word for it. Read the plans of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and Ayman Zawahiri to drive America from Iraq, establish a base for al-Qaeda and spread jihad across the Middle East. The terrorists are counting on us to lose our will and retreat under pressure. We're in danger of proving them right.


· Beware the polls. In November the American people expressed serious concerns about Iraq (and about Republican corruption and scandals). They did not say that they want us to lose this war. They did not say that they want us to allow Iraq to become a base for al-Qaeda to conduct global terrorist operations. They did not say that they would rather we fight the terrorists here at home. Until you see a poll that asks those questions, don't use election results as an excuse to retreat.

Ms Schlussel is actually Jewish. Well that is good to know! The controversy is of course over her radical views. She thinks Michael Jackson and Soccer are anti-American. hmm I don't care for Jackson or soccer but anti-American? The media has made a huge thing of the new soccer king from England. I am such a non-fan I can't think of his name although his wife is Posh Spice. But predictably he is in California not the midwest!

She is anti-Bush and pro-Tancredo. She claims she is NOT Anti-Muslim, she is anti-terrorist. Nothing wrong with that! Unfortunately her followers seem confused on that point.

So I wonder how many here have grandkids playing soccer. Be sure to call their parents and have them off those teams right away, the soccer-moms and their charges are endangering America!

"Liz Cheney Nails It... Every point is simple, direct and true."

INDEED SHE DOES! very good article. Now if the NY Times would wake up.....

tk says, "The president should state that he will huddle with all the democrats in secret and come up with a way forward that all members of congress agree will work in secret."
tk, that "agreement" will take place right after hell freezes over. You apparently don't appreciate how dedicated the Democrats are to not winning this thing.

Also re Vietnam, according to the Wall St. Journal last week, VN is not even in the top 100 countries in having a "free economy." It is way behind China even. It IS slowly coming to the realization that its managed communist economy is a total failure, and is following China's lead in adopting some free economy measures and rejecting Marx, Lenin, Ho Chi Min and Mao. But it has a long way to go.

I want to share something with you guys I thought was sort of funny.

I was at a Karate event for my kid last night and was talking with the mother of another student. (She was the white step mother of an Asian girl.) I told her that my son was sweet on a girl in the class. She looked directly at me and asked "What color is she?" I felt a little stunned and trying to think of the most polically correct way to answer... So I said, I think she is Hispanic... she looked at me for a second and laughed....

"I meant what color belt is she?" HA HA

I could have died, as I mumbled "I think she has a purple belt..." Later I told the guy who runs the school (who happens to be black)... he thought it was funny ...

Anyway thought I'd share.

Ambrose Bierce once said:

Rear (noun) in American military matters, that exposed part of the Army that is nearest to Congress.

Liz Cheney is right of course. Unfortunately, even the Bush Administration, has hamstrung the military to the point where it has become impossible for them to make significant or visible progress against either the insurgents or the sectarian violence --apparently out of fear of offending someone in either the Sunni or Shiite hierarchies. Along with the "surge" in troops levels, there has been some relaxation of rules of engagement, but it may be too little too late. In any event there is no demonstration of the sort of overwhelming force necessary to regain control of the situation. IMHO

Muslim scientist wants GMT replaced with Mecca Time

Egyptian Researcher Dr. Abd Al-Baset Al-Sayyed Explains the "Science" behind His Demand to Abolish Greenwich Mean Time and Replace It with Mecca Time

http://memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1349

oh no don't worry, We can trust the Muslims...

richstacy: I love everything about Churchill and particularly his quotes. I've read many, but never that one. Thanks.

zombeese: You gotta remember I'm a "mark" and as such can't be 100% correct.
I would never question your patriotism and you may well be right that the Saudi royal family is more complicit than we will ever know. If we deal with the alligators closest to us, and survive we can then get to the others in the swamp.

And I can agree with your assessment that as a Reagan conservative you've been abandoned. I'm not that enamored with Bush but I just don't understand what is to be gained by constantly demeaning him and detracting from everything he tries to do.

Perhaps real soon, the long line of white men elected president will cease. We will then have a white woman as president and quite possibly a part white man as vice-president. If so, America will have achieved, in the political arena, a major goal of the liberal PC crowd.
Many will then be able to exult in their cleansed conscience and self righteousness. Some will have the leadership they deserve. Others will only hope so.

Mr.Scrooge: Your postings are so correct they depress me and that isn't easy. ;^)

WldFlwr: Re-read my post a little closer and I think you might be able to see I did not attribute "orgasiming" to you.
In your zeal to find something, anything, wrong in a post you can't see past those 'I gotcha' moments you love.

Rich: you missed the idea that the d's be given the POTUS position in 2008. The r's would concentrate on the congress. Spend all the money on the congress races and find quality canidates for those positions. The POTUS in 2009 will have some tough issues to handle. SS is coming to a head, no solution other than Bushes that will work. Border violations are coming to a head, no option other than enforce the current laws. If Iraq can be drawen down we can put 100,000 troops on the mexican border. That could be a victory on the war on drugs also. Purchase of a mile wide strip of land on the borderoutside of the citys as a bombing range with live ammo would be a good move. It could be a moving target range for armed helicopters.
It will not be easy for any POTUS partically when she will not have congress. We have a habit of putting incompent presidents in place when the nation wants a change only because of change not because the other party has any ideas. What was carter inflation again? Interest rates 21%. Heck i got 16% on a CD during that period.

I do not believe we will ever win a conflict again without unity.
Senator Clinton today said to cut off the funds for the Iraqi army. That is exactly what a democratic congress did in 1974 toi the south Viets and two years later the country fell. Beruit is falling today several years after we left them one their own with terriosts as part of their government. They bombed us out of there also.

"I do not believe we will ever win a conflict again without unity."
Agreed tk, and I somtimes wonder if we'll ever see unity again. Only after a great national tragedy, brought about by lack of unity! Amuch greater one than 9/11.

Let's not forget something here:

The country was pretty much behind Bush when he went into Iraq after 9/11.

It was not until after many foul-ups there that he lost his support.

And, by the way, tkearns, I applaud the way you take comfort in passing our "loss" of the Vietnam war off to congressional failure to budget for arms to South Vietnam in 1974. Far better to take comfort in that than in feeling the pain of recognizing the lack of will to fight by the ARVIN!

The President's State of the Union Address was very good, maybe his best IMO, especially re Iraq and foreign policy. The Dem's response by Sen. Webb was Lame. It seemed to me that they are resigned to losing the war, and to forfeiting the lives of our troops not to bring freedom to Iraq and a new way of life to the Mid East but for nothing. They want to withdraw so we will lose, so our boys will have died in vain, presumably so they can win the presidential election. all without the slightest consideration of the horrendous consequences of losing.

That may backfire, unless the American public is even further gone than I think it is, (which is entirely possible.)

Paul: I have to disagree with you on the ARVN. Our last troop left in mar 73 and the embasey did not fall until apr of 75 i think. That is two years that the ARVN fought a good fight and won some battles. Only when their supplies and ammo ran out did they lose. And most of them died for the trouble.
A peace accord was signed and the North did not abide by the treaty. Same thing will happen in Iraq when it is secured and the fighting dies down. If we leave it will start again. Lets move our peacekeeping force in germany and Korea to Iraq for the next 50 years. We do need some hardship tours and training for the troops. The iran an syria borders can replace the 38th parell and the east german border. some airbases and missle sites around bagdad will keep the iranians at home. Besides we need BX where we can get good rugs.

Rich: Webb stated some lies that he should be taken to task for. He stated that the military was ignored by the president and generals fired. He also said that the majority of the military are against the war. Lies bold faced. Let see if the media allows him to get by with it. He is another Kerry. Winter soldier. Right winter?

What Thomas Jefferson learned
from the Muslim book of jihad
By Ted Sampley
U.S. Veteran Dispatch
January 2007

Democrat Keith Ellison is now officially the first Muslim United States congressman. True to his pledge, he placed his hand on the Quran, the Muslim book of jihad and pledged his allegiance to the United States during his ceremonial swearing-in.
Capitol Hill staff said Ellison's
swearing-in photo opportunity drew more media than they had ever seen in the history of the U.S. House.
Ellison represents the 5th Congressional District of Minnesota.
The Quran Ellison used was no ordinary
book. It once belonged to Thomas Jefferson, third president of the United States and one of America's founding fathers. Elliso n borrowed it from the Rare Book Section of the Library of Co ngress. It was one of the 6,500 Jefferson books archived in the library.
Ellison, who was born in Detroit and
converted to Islam while in college, said he chose to use Jefferson's Quran because it showed that "a visionary like Jefferson" believed that wisdom could be gleaned from many sources.
There is no doubt Ellison was right about Jefferson believing wisdom could be "gleaned" from the Muslim Quran. At the time Jefferson owned the book, he needed to know everything possible about Muslims because he was about to advocate war against the Islamic "Barbary" states of Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Tripoli.
Ellison's use of Jefferson's Quran as a
prop illuminates a subject once well-known in the history of the United States, but, which today, is mostly forgotten - the Muslim pirate slavers who over many centuries enslaved millions of Africans and tens of thou sands of Christian Europeans and Americans in the Islami c "Bar bary" states.
Over the course of 10 centuries, Muslim
pirates cruised the African and Mediterranean coastline, pillaging villages and seizing slaves.
The taking of slaves in pre-dawn raids on unsuspecting coastal villages had a high casualty rate. It was typical of Muslim raiders to kill off as many of the "non-Muslim" older men and women as possible so the preferred "booty" of only young women and children could be collected.
Young non-Muslim women were targeted
because of their value as concubines in Islamic markets. Islamic law provides for the sexual interests of Muslim men by allowing them to take as many as four wives at one time and to have as many concubines as their fortunes allow.
Boys, as young as 9 or 10 years old, were often mutilated to create eunuchs who would bring higher prices in the slave markets of the Middle East. Muslim slave traders cr eated "eunuch stations"
along major African slave routes s o the necessary surgery could be performed. It was estimated that only a small number of the boys subjected to the mutilation survived after the surgery.
When American colonists rebelled against British rule in 1776, American merchant ships lost Royal Navy protection. With no American Navy for protection, American ships were attacked and their Christian crews enslaved by Muslim pirates operating under the control of the "Dey of Algiers"--an Islamist warlord ruling Algeria.
Because American commerce in the
Mediterranean was being destroyed by the pirates, the Continental Congress agreed in 1784 to negotiate treaties with the four Barbary States. Congress appointed a special commission consisting of John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin, to oversee the negotiations.
Lacking the ability to protect its
merchant ships in the Mediterranean, the new Ameri ca government tried to appease the Muslim slavers by agr eeing to pay tribute and ransoms in order to retrieve seized American ships and buy the freedom of enslaved sailors.
Adams argued in favor of paying tribute as the cheapest way to get American commerce in the Mediterranean moving again. Jefferson was opposed.
He believed there would be no end to the demands for tribute and wanted matters settled "through the medium of war." He proposed a league of trading nations to force an end to Muslim piracy.
In 1786, Jefferson, then the American
ambassador to France, and Adams, then the American ambassador to Britain, met in London with Sidi Haji abdul Rahman Adja, the "Dey of Algiers" ambassador to Britain.
The Americans wanted to negotiate a peace treaty based on Congress' vote to appease.
During the meeting Jefferson and Adams
asked the Dey's ambassador why Muslims held so much hostility towards America, a nation with w hich they had no previous contacts.
In a later meeting w ith th e American
Congress, the two future presidents reported that Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja had answered that Islam "was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Quran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman (Muslim) who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise."
For the following 15 years, the American government paid the Muslims millions of dollars for the safe passage of American ships or the return of American hostages. The payments in ransom and tribute amounted to 20 percent of United States government annual revenues in 1800.
Not long after Jefferson's inauguration as president in 1801, he dispatch ed a group of frigates to defend American interests in the Med iterra nean, and informed Congress.
Declaring that America was going to spend "millions for defense but not one cent for tribute,"
Jefferson pressed the issue by deploying American Marines and many of America's best warships to the Muslim Barbary Coast.
The USS Constitution, USS Constellation, USS Philadelphia, USS Chesapeake, USS Argus, USS Syren and USS Intrepid all saw action.
In 1805, American Marines marched across the dessert from Egypt into Tripolitania, forcing the surrender of Tripoli and the freeing of all American slaves.
During the Jefferson administration, the Muslim Barbary States, crumbling as a result of intense American naval bombardment and on shore raids by Marines, finally officially agreed to abandon slavery and piracy.
Jefferson's victory over the Muslims lives on today in the Marine Hymn, with the line, "From the halls of Monte zuma to the shores of Tripoli, we will fight our country's battl es on the land as on the sea."
It wasn't until 1815 that the problem was fully settled by the total defeat of all the Muslim slave trading pirates.
Jefferson had been right. The "medium of war" was the only way to put and end to the Muslim problem.

Mr. Ellison was right about Jefferson. He was a "visionary" wise enough to read and learn about the enemy from their own Muslim book of jihad. What Thomas Jefferson learned from the Muslim book of jihad

By Ted Sampley
U.S. Veteran Dispatch
January 2007

AMEN

tk, The generals were not fired, they "retired" The military, according to many posters on this site, are against the war excluding the 101st, 82nd, 4th PSYOPS, Heavy Combat Brigades from Fts Carson, Hood The RECCE Marines, Delta, Blue Light. Gabriel, Et al.
Louis Walcott and Malcom Little cut their teeth in a temple right up the street from wher I used to live, Temple 11 on Intervale Street, 1 Block away from Grove Hall, in Roxbury. You poor US citizens have no idea, even vaguly what you are dealing with. Islam has pervaded our prisons and indoctrinated people on the street who feel, justified or not they are being downtrodden with visions of sweet love and brotherhood sanctified by martydom /submission. The same swine that worked hand in hand with the rumrunners from Boston and New Bedford with bases in Sudan, orocco and Cape Verde, are still engaged in slave trade, diamonds oil gold and any thing else they can get their hands on. The African continent, well over 10,000 years old in civilized, recorded history has been raped by Greeks, Italians, Arabs British, Dutch Germans and any other nation that had empiric aspirations and persons on this blog blame the victims for the confusions and malase that exists, yet have all kinds of excuses for a white woman who has been raped and held captive for a few months calling it "Stockholm Syndrome"

I, with all due respect to all, will take a brief sabbatical from this site to regain some rational perspective, because my heart is being ripped by sly, racial, anti miltary, and contentious postings. Rational discourse has slowly but surely disappeared from this site and the ones that contribute to this ugliness know who they are. To those persons, your egos and narrow opinions contribute nothing. May God bless you all and give you peace.

Winter: Please do not leave. So you do not misunderstand i stated that the fired generals was a lie by webb. And i wanted him taken to task for it. The people of whom you speak of no this blog are empowered by the elected officials that contintue to spout this stuff that is not true. It is the same as what the enemy wants us to do is leave. Please stay and provide us your wise assistance in fighting this give up america campaign in words. Thanks winter.

By Ted Sampley
U.S. Veteran Dispatch
January 2007

AMEN
Posted by: tkearns on Jan 24, 07 | 12:44 am

This is also covered in Bill Bennett’s book America, the Last Best Hope. If you have not already read it... do so you will not be disappointed.

BobbyGee generally when a blogger's name is written followed immediately by a statement it is read as referencing that individual. You may just as well give up feigning ignorance of the tricks.

BobbyGee you have to keep this nonstop gamesmanship in a pathetic attempt to stay king of the mountain on this blog.

There actually was a leftwing cabal last year dedicated to the proposition of running off all those who did not agree with them. Well they failed and they seem to have left.

Unfortunately the void is now filled by the power-mongers who have to just cannot "let it go".

It' a waste of time and effort. So the better course is to give you exactly what you think you want.

wintersoldier: Go in peace without malice in your heart. Ugliness, unfortunately, is a disease long present in the human race. Only persistent beauty can overcome and blot out the ugliness. When beauty fades in the face of ugliness, ugliness wins.

The most prescient statement made concerning the Iraq war was made by Colin Powell. Ever since the Iraq war began to 'go badly' his comment: "Mr President, you break it and you own it.", rings in my mind.

However much Iraq was a danger to our interests, I must admit I can't help feeling perhaps we should have left it intact and expended our energies elsewhere in the war on terror.

I hate saying this and thinking that way because it smacks so much of armchair generalship.

We have to fix it before it breaks us and I mean that in a greater sense than a monetary one.

Classic from Dinesh D'Souza:

Quote:
FP: You say the left wants us to lose in Iraq. But why? Aren’t the Islamic radicals a threat to women’s rights and gay rights?

D’Souza: It’s quite clear that the left wants us to lose the war on terror. Some people like Michael Moore and Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn are outspoken in saying this. But even people who don’t say it clearly wish it. If you think the left wants us to win, then its actions become baffling and mysterious. You have to labor hard to figure out why they speak and act like they do. On the other hand if you assume the left wants us to lose, then all its rhetoric and actions make complete sense. But why? Because the left is a bit scared of Bin Laden but it is very scared of Bush. The left doesn’t like Bin Laden but it absolutely hates Bush. And while Bin Laden and his allies are the “far enemy,” Bush and the conservatives are the “near enemy.” As the left sees it, Bin Laden threatens sharia in Baghdad, but Bush threatens sharia in Boston. Imagine one or two more conservative court appointments and the whole liberal agenda of the past half-century is jeopardized. So the left is quite willing to ally with the lesser evil, the Islamic radicals, in order to defeat the greater evil, Bush and the right.

Entire interview is here:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=26556

Posted by: paul on Jan 23, 07 | 9:15 pm

Paul: Muslim extremists want a world under Islamic rule. Not because of anything the US has done. It is what they want. They want to eliminate all non believers, Christian, Hindu, secular, liberal, conservative, all.
It has nothing to do with any actions the West has taken, it has nothing to do with US foreign policy, it has nothing to do with Israel, they are only excuses. People have to stop blaming actions taken by non Muslims, it has nothing to do with it. Anyone who blames Muslim extremism on actions of any one but Muslims is not facing the truth.
They want to institute a Caliphate, because that is their firm belief of the way the world should be. They can not be negotiated with and they can not be appeased.
Liberal actions encourage and enable them to achieve their goals. The liberal socialists in Europe are giving away their continent.
If they are to be stopped the truth must be faced and they must be eliminated.

What was with Hillary's face on a couple of shots, she had that cartoonish disapproving smirk sort of stuck on. Very interesting to watch Nancy Pelooza's facial expressions as the topic changed, does she always blink that much? Speaker Pelooza remained seated, didn't applaud when the President called for victory in Iraq. Does the Speaker want America to fail in Iraq?

wld says, "BobbyGee you have to keep this nonstop gamesmanship in a pathetic attempt to stay king of the mountain on this blog."

Huh?? talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Bobbygee, you are quite right that we could have expended our efforts to better effect somewhere other than Iraq to fight the war on terror. But we didn't. We are there now and have essentially made a promise to those Iraqis who want self determination and freedom without dictatorship or theocracy.

We made a promise in Vietnam too, but we didn't keep it. We lost there due to a weak kneed Congress and an even weaker kneed public. We have yet to recover from that loss.

If we listen to Pelosi, Webb, Reid and the rest of the Dems, and pull the same stunt again, we may never recover our soul as a nation. Not only would tens if not hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, who believed our promises die, but no other nation would ever trust our word again under any circumstances. All of our enemies, and potential enemies, from the Islamic world, to China and Russia, would be immeasurably emboldened. The potential for disastrous consequences is unlimited. Yet the Dems are blind to this.

Bush has made some terrible blunders to be sure, but they are nothing compared to the blunder the Democrats and their supporters are about to deliberately lead us into. IMHO

Posted by: richstacy on Jan 24, 07 | 11:37 am


hey, I think you just got the last word... but it won't last long....

Wldflr: Once again. The President has proposed to make the cost of heath benefits subject to the INCOME TAX. As they are not currently taxable this is a TAX INCREASE.

Now he has also proposed that individuals receive up to a $7500 deduction to offset the NEW TAX and that families receive up to a $15000 deduction to offset the NEW TAX.

However, large families and/or those with good insurance now will have to PAY the NEW TAX. The White House estimates that 100 million will pay less than at present and 30 million will pay more via the NEW TAX.

This is another socialist income transfer welfare program...

unpoor, your 9:51 post is right on the money! Only radical Islam is responsible for the misdeeds and travesties of radical Islam -- no one else. Not Israel, not the U.S., not anyone but themselves. Period.

I heard that General Petraeus today testified before the Senate committee that the non binding resolution proposed by the Democrats against President Bush's "surge" gives aid and comfort to our enemy. I would like to have seen a few Democratic faces when he said that.

On the other hand, he also said that things are a terrible mess in Iraq, that the situation is "dire" and that the outcome is far from certain.

<<BAGHDAD, Iraq - Four of the five Americans killed when a U.S. security company's helicopter crashed in a dangerous Sunni neighborhood in central Baghdad were shot execution style in the back the head, Iraqi and U.S. officials said Wednesday.>>

want to actually win the damn war?? that "dangerous Sunni neighborhood" should cease to exist. Everything in it should be dead by sundown. carpetbombed to oblivion. Then we should ask, "which one of you bastards want to shoot down the next chopper?" Ditto Tikrit, Ramadi and Sadr City.

If we are not going to really get tough, then we should probably just save ourselves the embarrassment and come on home. just the addition of 20k troops isn't going to accomplish a damn thing.

Wolf Blitzer Interviews Dick Cheney
This airs tonight at 4-6 p.m. and 7-8 p.m.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Quote:
Remember, remember me -- remember with me what happened in Afghanistan. The United States was actively involved in Afghanistan in the '80s supporting the effort against the Soviets. The Mujahideen prevailed, everybody walked away. And in Afghanistan, within relatively short order, the Taliban came to power, they created a safe haven for al Qaeda, training camps were established where some 20,000 terrorists trained in the late '90s. And out of that, out of Afghanistan, because we walked away and ignored it, we had the attack on the USS Cole, the attack on the embassies in East Africa, and 9/11, where the people trained and planned in Afghanistan for that attack and killed 3,000 Americans. That is what happens when we walk away from a situation like that in the Middle East.

BINGO!

We should be getting a new topic any time now... I found a series of Hillary quotes that I know most of you would enjoy. I will wait to see if we will get another "Hillary, Can anyone stop her?" topic since the Time editors are most likely having orgasms over her candidacy.

Could the Democrats be attempting to leave President Bush holding the Bagdad?

The Democrats now promise "A New Direction For America "

The stock market is at a new all-time high and America 's 401K's are back. A new direction from there means, what?

Unemployment is at 25 year lows. A new direction from there means, what? Oil prices are plummeting. A new direction from there means, what?

Taxes are at 20 year lows. A new direction from there means, what?

Federal tax revenues are at all-time highs. A new direction from there means, what?

The Federal deficit is down almost 50%, just as predicted over last year. A new direction from there means, what?

Home valuations are up 200% over the past 3.5 years. A new direction from there means, what?

Inflation is in check, hovering at 20 year lows. A new direction from there means, what?

Not a single terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11/01. A new direction from there means, what? Osama bin Laden is living under a rock in a dark cave, having not surfaced in years, if he's alive at all, while 95% of Al Queda's top dogs are either dead or in custody, cooperating with US Intel. A new direction from there means, what?

Several major terrorist attacks already thwarted by US and British Intel, including the recent planned attack involving 10 Jumbo Jets being exploded in mid-air over major US cities in order to celebrate the anniversary of the 9/11/01 attacks. A new direction from there means, what?

Just as President Bush foretold us on a number of occasions, Iraq was to be made "ground zero" for the war on terrorism -- and just as President Bush said they would, terrorist cells from all over the region are arriving from the shadows of their hiding places and flooding into Iraq in order to get their faces blown off by US Marines rather than boarding planes and heading to the United States to wage war on us here. A new direction from there means, what?

Now let me see, do I have this right? I can expect: The economy to go South Illegal's named Carlos to go North. Taxes to go Up Employment to go Down Terrorism to come In Tax breaks to go Out Social Security to go away Health Care to go the same way gas prices have gone But what the heck! I can gain comfort by knowing that Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Edward Kennedy, Howard Dean, Harry Reid and Barack Obama have worked hard to create a comprehensive National Security Plan, Health Care Plan, Immigration Reform Plan, Gay Rights Plan, Same Sex Marriage Plan, Abortion On Demand Plan, Tolerance of Everyone and Everything Plan, How to Return all Troops to the U.S. in The Next Six Months Plan, A Get Tough Plan, adapted from the French Plan by the same name and a How Everyone Can Become as Wealthy as We Are Plan. I forgot the no more Katrina Storm Plan. Now I know why I feel good after the elections. I am going to be able to sleep so much better at nights knowing these dedicated politicians are thinking of me and my welfare.

Please pass this good news along to all of your friends so they can feel better also. Yawn. This is boring. The truth hurts.

Backwards..................is NOT a new direction.

But is the one the liberals know best. retreat.

Posted by: richstacy on Jan 24, 07 | 3:16 pm

I totally agree rich. If this was the strategy we had based the war on, then all our troops would be home safe by now. I say there is still time.

There is no secret to the position of the Democrats. They don't think America has anything to fear from the muslim terrorists or China or North Korea or Iran. They think that anyone who has a gripe against America is justified in that gripe. They believe that America is wrong and should be humbled. Democrats are the keepers of the flame by which they seek to burn this nation to the ground. They are winning.

I cant wait to see my man Barakk take charge. He don't play no games wid these palefaced honkies. He say word da way it is. From the hood to da big house in DC he gonna be da man one these days. I don't think that white broad gonna stop him and sure as hell aint no Republican got the game for it. I hearin on the vine that Mike Tyson giv him some bread and Minister Lou done the same. You know me and all my bros gonna vote as many time as they let us for this dude. Hey my homey crank it up fo da man!

jomesha, I see you're still trying to learn ebonics and pass yourself off as some kind of black cartoon character, when in fact, you are more than likely some racist cracker

Posted by: richstacy on Jan 24, 07 | 6:07 pm

You are only encouraging him to keep up the facade. Just don't react, maybe he will go away.

Posted by: Jomesha on Jan 24, 07 | 5:57 pm


Good God, what kind of idiot did we pick up here? Jomesha you can't spell and you call that ebonics? Hrm, I don't think so... Well think of this, if this the the core support for Osama Obama, Hillary should not be too worried tonight.

UNPOOR: Backwards is a new direction ---------But not preferred by most. However the media reports it is.

This post is in response to something Unpoor wrote, however I think it applies to all pro-war, pro-Bush supporters.

Unpoor wrote, " Iraq is nothing like Vietnam, these guys can follow us home."; the idea being that the war in Iraq is preventing Al Qaeda, Osama, et al from acting here in the US. I believe this is also Dubya's paramount reason for continuing to fight the war.

Its also completely wrong.

If 9/11 showed us anything, its that Osama and his merry men had a tremendous will to carry out their plan. People with that much desire, that much tenacity, that much "will to win" are not going to be dissauded by threat of marines hunting them down like dogs. If nothing else, they have proven they are not afraid to die.

Which leads us to the $64,000 question: If the war in Iraq [and Afghanistan] are not a bonafide threat to Al Qaeda, then why hasn't there been an attack in the US since 9/11?

And the answer is: The decision not to attack is a strategic ploy.

Think about it this way. If you were going to fight a Giant, would you try to spar with him, or would you rather try to knock him out in one shot? The answer is definately one punch.

Mao Tse-Tung said a revoluntionary must wade thru the people like a fish swims in water. The same is true of a terrorist. As even the Kool-aid drinkers will admit, our borders are wide open. There are many places for terrorists to hide in the various arab neighborhoods and in the illegal barrios.

If lunatic muslums were to start blowing themselves up in car bomb attacks, it wouldn't be very long before even the PC crowd says, we have to get serious about border control and homeland security. The net result would a couple hundred dead suburbanites, and a much tougher defense shell to crack. Not a great result for Al Qaeda.

But do nothing for 8 years and then set off a nuke in Chicago; thats a winner.

Patience is a virtue. Al Qaeda has shown that they have it. They waited 8 years from the first WTC attack to the second one. I hope I'm wrong, but all my logic tells me they are waiting another 8 years to wipe out a major midwestern city.

Remember, there were no plane hijackings prior to 9/11. Not because Al Qaeda didn't want to, but because tactically it didn't make sense.

In boxing its called rope-a-dope; in poker its called check and raise; and in carney its called feeding the mark. Regardless, it doesn't look good for the home side.

Zombie: You completely ignored what the Cheney also said on the topic... and he certainly makes a lot more sense. If your misguided feelings prevail, we will be attacked again.

Unpoor included in an earlier post....

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Remember, remember me -- remember with me what happened in Afghanistan. The United States was actively involved in Afghanistan in the '80s supporting the effort against the Soviets. The Mujahideen prevailed, everybody walked away. And in Afghanistan, within relatively short order, the Taliban came to power, they created a safe haven for al Qaeda, training camps were established where some 20,000 terrorists trained in the late '90s. And out of that, out of Afghanistan, because we walked away and ignored it, we had the attack on the USS Cole, the attack on the embassies in East Africa, and 9/11, where the people trained and planned in Afghanistan for that attack and killed 3,000 Americans. That is what happens when we walk away from a situation like that in the Middle East.

BINGO!

Posted by: unpoor on Jan 24, 07 | 3:43 pm

As much as I hate to admit it, Zombie may have a point. We have no serious border control. There could be numerous Al Quaeda terrorists in our country as we speak. The Islamofascists are well known for planting "sleepers" who are inactive for years until they are called upon to act. That is why some of us have been irate for several years that Mr. Bush is doing nothing about border security and stopping illegal immigration.

Jomesha, you are doing a great Perry imitation. Keep up the good work, "bro." Follow your heros straight to jail.

Very punny, DrD.

Paul, Bush lost support for his Iraq policy for the following reasons. The drive by media opposed it no matter what. The Democrats opposed it no matter what. The professional protestors opposed it no matter what. Academia opposed it no matter what. RINOs ran from it when the drive by media reported their first manufactured polls that it was unpopular. Conservatives became fed up when they realized that the policy was all talk and no action, ie. the rules of engagement were don't secure the borders, don't prevent insurgents and weapons from coming in from Syria and Iran, don't offend anyone, and for heaven's sake please don't kill any terrorists.

want to actually win the damn war?? that "dangerous Sunni neighborhood" should cease to exist. Everything in it should be dead by sundown. carpetbombed to oblivion. Then we should ask, "which one of you bastards want to shoot down the next chopper?" Ditto Tikrit, Ramadi and Sadr City.

If we are not going to really get tough, then we should probably just save ourselves the embarrassment and come on home. just the addition of 20k troops isn't going to accomplish a damn thing.



Posted by: richstacy on Jan 24, 07 | 3:16 pm



Ahem. I concur.

Wild, Rich and BG: the liberals all quit, so you guys have to attack each other now?

Just as with matters of war and peace, we now have proof that liberals are quitters in all phases of life. Our little blog is now virtually liberal-free.

Unpoor, why were you talking about Latvia? Does Osama Obama claim he is Latvian rather than Muslim?

montego,

You correctly identified the Bush policy:

"...the policy was all talk and no action, ie. the rules of engagement were don't secure the borders, don't prevent insurgents and weapons from coming in from Syria and Iran, don't offend anyone, and for heaven's sake please don't kill any terrorists."

That's why he lost support.

Had he chalked up a few victories after the taking of Bagdad, his political support would not have eroded!

I couldn't listen to the President's speech and, frankly, had to turn off Beck today. I am so upset that I stock piling water won't come close to expending the energy I need to be rid of. I no longer believe a single word that comes out of our President's mouth and haven't believed in a single word coming out of Congress for some time. If.......................IF WE ARE AT WAR - and the President says we are, why in the sam you know what are we leaving our borders wide open? If any political animal of any stripe can give me the rationale for going to war - spending our blood and treasure to establish "peace, freedom and democracy" in another part of the world while leaving our borders wide open with thousands of invaders coming in every day, I'll listen. <sarcasm on> But please, remember I am a stupid little old lady, barely capable of making it to the polls to vote for my "betters" who can be counted on to do the smart things that will make me safe.

Test-Tube RINO Born

I wonder if it will run in '08.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,246341,00.html

It will probably replace Spector.

Only in PA....

Please.....A new topic.....Please!!!!

After reading most of the comments posted here, I expect to read newspaper headlines about the Little Rock Nine, About George Wallace standing in the door of the University of Alabama, About Bull Connor's dogs and water hoses. Those of some of the things that happened in the 50s and 60s.

I thought the people of America had turned that corner....but I was so wrong.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I think it is time to hear opinions on a different topic......

richstacy: Can't disagree with your assertion of the need to stay. But if we as a nation can't make the commitment necessary to complete the job we might as well bail out now and re-group our energies for the next battle which is sure to come. Fortress America has never been a wise foreign policy but it might be wise to temporarily regroup.

WldFlwr: "......stay King of the Hill on this blog." Wow ! Thanks for the compliment. Didn't know I held such an exalted position. Won't you be my Queen ? Together we can rule the blog world.

montego: as can be noted from the above , I've extended the olive branch to WldFlwr in the hope she will become my Queen of the blog. If she doesn't spit the olive pits at me and thrash me with the branch you may rue what you have wished for.

montego/paul: I fully agree with the most glaring deficiency in the Bush policy toward pacifying Iraq. Timid, tenuous and tolerant actiions have completely failed . richstacy's prescription for the insurgent strongholds is long overdue and, if executed two years ago, would probably led to about half the troops we now have in Iraq.

It isn't too late ,but we've lost momentum and the political will to succeed has waned significantly. The 'terrain' or 'high ground' is now held by the weak, the unwilling and the unwise. The only power they have is the power to loudly object and detract at efforts to save whatever might be left of 'the day'.

Sigh, wading through the morass of posts from the last few days I was struck by something and then began to ponder it’s implications in a broader respect.

It began with unpoor’s statement that Islam and only Islam was guilty of their actions and blaming anything else was just an excuse.

In principle I agree with that (see what I had to say about the airport prayer incident). I think that if the so called peaceful religion of Islam doesn’t like the face being put upon it by these animals then they need to take an active hand in cleaning their own house. But I fail to see how you can deny that our actions may have, can, and will drive some into the fanatic’s camp.

An over simplified time line of our actions in Iran goes something like this...

In the 1950's the leader of Iran accused British Petroleum of cheating them by not paying a fair price for the oil they were taking out of Iran. The British consulted with the Eisenhower Administration and the Iranian leader was then named a communist (remember this was the era of McCarthyism). We deposed him and put up the Shaw in his place (does this sound familiar?). After twenty-some years of the Shaw’s totalitarian rule the Iranians get fed up and we have the Embassy fiasco and the rise of fundamentalism there. A few short years later we start helping another dictator by the name of Saddam wage war against Iran because the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Now if you were to put yourself under that history would you have any love for the country that had done all this?

This is the problem, that there are many out there who know this history and find it reason enough why we should let sleeping dogs lie. Not because they are evil, not because they want our country to fail and fall. They just see our own complicity in the state of affairs and think we shouldn’t make matters worse by continuing our actions over there.

In this they are 100% wrong. Hindsight is not always 20/20, in fact it can be down right myopic depending on your perspective. Once again I refer to the statement, “you broke it, you bought it.”

Should we pull out, before the last one of our troops gets off of the plane home Iran will be exerting it’s influence in Iraq. With Syria already there and Lebanon returning to the fold that will give the fanatic’s a solid core to work from. Once this happens get ready for things to get really bad and prepare yourself to see the mushroom clouds pop up as Israel starts using the nukes that they never had.

Even with the unstable mess that we created over there, our presence is still creating a backhanded stability. As long as we are there Iran will not make an overt attempt at anything. They may be crazy but they aren’t stupid. They full well remember what Admiral Yamamoto said about waking a sleeping bear after Pearl Harbor.

Unfortunately, with our recent history of waiting to close the barn door until after the horse got out, I fear that it will take something far worse than December 7th, 1941, something much more dire than September 11th, 2001 before we regain the resolve to defend our way of life in the manner of our forefathers.

What this nation needs is another such as Teddy R or Give ‘Em Hell Harry. A person with the resolve of a Churchill and the foresight of a Lincoln. But I fear that such as these are extinct as the dinosaurs. We’ve made it so by our own insane need to tear apart every person who aspires to leadership.

This is the true legacy of the Viet Nam/Watergate Era. Nixon showed us that even the president can be a liar and a crook and we’ve just assumed that every one since then was one too.

Zom: You make some excellent arguements. but on the other hand during the 8 years between attacks very few terriosts were killed or captured. A lot of al quida leaders have been neturalized in the past 4 years. A few have been denied the plots they attempted. A few are short of cash as a result of the wqr on terrior.
You are big on believing that the military part is the only part of the WOT. Oh yes a few have had their phone calls tapped when they called their us cells. No communication no execution of plans. Oh yes, who has been holding up the closing of the borders. Bush? No he has made several proposals and they have been ignored by both sides in the congress. Nothing is done because of the fear of loss of votes. Getting votes while continuing to put our soldiers in harms way is a cowards way to regain power. Saying that this nation who is the bigest supporter of freedom, ignoring our history, and then saying that we are the evil ones is not a rational approach. Yet a good percentage subscribes to your line of thought. IMHO you are messed up and idologies like yours will be the downfall of the only nation that is the hope for a free and peaceful world. Why is it that you will not believe that "United we Stand Divided we Fall? UWSDWF. Get real.

montego: Their certainly are sleeper cells in the country now and their supporters are tring their best to not get them discovered. What do you think this not phone tapping is? The election of people that consider religion first over country while oppressing the religions that our government is founded on is about.?
They are here and a certain part of our population is helping them. The abandoning of any law on treason which started during WWII is one of the biggest reasons. Everything now even treason is considered to be free speach and the right to dissent. The right to dissent in primarily in your right to vote. However the election means nothing to the left unless they win. This is evident in the VN situation. They lost the election in 68 because of the war but the minority managed to thru marching in the streets to get their way. And the appreciative masses elected the leaders of the disent to the senate and in later years ran one of the leaders for the presidentacy. I do not know what it takes to save the country but for my grandchildrens sake i hope a savior appears.

Shutter: Nixon may have ben a liar and a crook but he ended the VN war vwith little loss of land and with honor. The left could not allow him to have that success. He had other successes but those are trashed also. You are right that the left must trash and opposition to make them look good.
As we celibrate on saturday the signing of the VN peace accords in 1973 we suffer from the history created by our loony left. The left trashed the honor that Nixon managed to save from a war that the gloryious Kennedy adminstration escalated into a mess. Now the D's want to end 2007 with a mess and they will straighten it out. No chance.
Expanding the election process to a continuous process is a pure diversion from allowing the current administration to accomplish anything. With so many senators concentrating on election in 2008 nothing will be done in the congress as in the past nothing was done in the election year. Now it has been expanded to complete gridlock because the votes are to get votes and not for the good of the country because the votes are based on the manafactured polls. It started with the Clinton administration and continues in one of the parties. They have even succeeded in corupting the other party politions to adopt thir tactics. Wake up america.

Be careful or another topic. Since time is in trouble i believe that the end is near for our beloved blog. They are cutting costs and this is of no benifit to the company. Besides it is a cat fight and not a good exchange of ideas. I very seldom get a good discussion going and when i do others diss it. Winter and wld have not reconized it, so lets discuss and forget the petty who said what and stick to sharing information and ideas. OK?

Child sex ring run by illegal aliens broken up by a suspicious school resource officer... Believe it or not, I saw this on our local NYT controlled media, but have not seen it anywhere else.

Apparently there were a number of girl involved from 13-16 yo age. 4 illegals were arrested for the crimes.
But none of our MSM has the story, though you'd think it would be big news.
Even fox isn't running the story, which to me reinforces my idea that they aren't much different than the lib MSM, only pretending to be middle of the road.

Anyone have any links to this story, or did it fall into the memory hole because it shows illegals in a less than positive light...?

Montego, it's a shame that the liberals all quit the blog -- or more accurately were insulted away. This blog is now in danger of becoming more of a conservative version of "Daily Kos" than an opinion leader's blog, or a forum for honest discussion of the issues of the day from all points of view.
On Iraq for example, we know that the majority of the public do not share our view, yet there is no longer anyone here to debate. They've all been insulted out of existence here. That makes the blog dull and uninteresting, and somwhat of a waste of time. Preaching to the Choir is no fun.

Tk, I don't actually know a soul who will be " 'celebrating' the signing of the VN peace accords." I suppose you could say that Nixon got us out of VN with some slight modicum of honor, but the truth is the North Vietnamese got everything they wanted, and we and the South Vietnamese got nothing we wanted. South VN became part of communist North VN, and all of Indo-China fell under the thrall of the communists. Thousands of South Vietnamese, who made the tragic mistake of relying on our word, were killed and tortured and "reeducated" in North Vietnamese torture camps -- and 2 million Cambodians were murdered.

The consequences of a similar "honorable" retreat from Iraq will be even more horrendous. But that seems to be just what the Democrats, and apparently a majority of the superficial, shallow, self-centered American public want.

shutter your 10:58 is pretty insightful.

zombeeze says, "Which leads us to the $64,000 question: If the war in Iraq [and Afghanistan] are not a bonafide threat to Al Qaeda, then why hasn't there been an attack in the US since 9/11?

And the answer is: The decision not to attack is a strategic ploy."

With all due respect Zom that's crazy.
Bin Laden himself has said that the battle is now centered in Iraq. That fact -- and the fact that we have been doing a good job of thwarting attacks by listening to the bad guys are the only reasons there have been no further attacks on our soil. Their "strategy" has nothing to do with it. Your statement to the contrary is mere idle speculation on your part with no supporting facts whatever.

paul said, "Had he chalked up a few victories after the taking of Bagdad, his political support would not have eroded!"

That is true! Americans love a winner and hate a loser. Bush may well have come to the realization that his strategy was not making any progress too late to turn the tide. He is now battling not only al Qaeda and the insurgents, as well as thousands of Sunni and Shiite troublemakers, but the wimps in Congress and 70% of the American public as well.

All according to Osama's plan, and statement that we lack the guts for the hard fight.

What a sorry state of affairs!

Rich, we don't agree on much, but your 1:30 post is right on.

What started out three or four years ago here was a very interesting blog where ideas as well as opinions were shared. It was an enjoyable to visit and participate. Not everyone agreed with everthing, but when there were disagreements, they were presented in a civil way

I still visit but participate less.

Posted by: richstacy on Jan 25, 07 | 1:30 pm

When I joined here this was nothing more than an exclusive liberal Hate Bush girls club. Check out the archives. It is not anyone's fault that they took their hate somewhere else.

What do you guys think of Morris?

Bush Expands His Presidency, May Gain Credibility On Iraq

By DICK MORRIS

January 25, 2007 -- As Jimmy Carter's dismal presidency drew to a close, his field of vision was narrowed to an embassy in Tehran. On Richard Nixon's last day, all he could see was a tape recorder. When Lyndon Johnson left office, all was forgotten but Vietnam. After his speech to the nation last week urging a larger troop commitment in Iraq, it seemed President Bush was destined to go down the same narrowing road to oblivion.

But his State of the Union speech Tuesday night boldly broadened his presidential agenda and vision. He once again became the president of the United States, not the mayor of Baghdad. By articulating viable, and potentially bi-partisan, proposals on energy independence, global climate change, healthcare, immigration reform, education standards and a host of other issues, he renewed the 360-degree mandate that should be the span of vision of any president.

And even as he hewed to a strict line on Iraq, he broadened his foreign policy vision to encompass the danger posed by Iran's potential for acquiring nuclear weapons and his domestic agenda to highlight his administration's breathtaking success in thwarting terrorist attacks at home. Missing only was a focus on North Korea, which cannot be allowed to keep its nuclear arsenal without provoking a nuclear arms race among China, Japan and North Korea that will leave Washington, Seoul, Tokyo and Beijing scared to death.

President Bush even found time to discuss his singular achievements: the economy, oil prices and the falling deficit. In recent months he has seemed to ignore his own track record as he pleaded for a longer tenure in Iraq. But the economy is growing nicely and its surging tax revenues - particularly from capital gains - lead some experts to predict the same kind of rapid deficit eradication as buoyed Clinton's last years as president. And oil prices are dropping; we see their reflection as gas prices hover around $2 per gallon.

George W. Bush finally seems to have grasped a crucial but ironic fact: The only way he can keep sufficient credibility and power to continue his commitment to victory in Iraq is to raise his approval ratings. The presidency's inherent powers are largely titular unless animated by national support and popularity. While an unpopular president still gets the corner office, his practical ability to act is severely constrained. There is an ongoing need for a daily majority in his national approval ratings for him to govern.

But the only way he can get those ratings - in order to continue to fight in Iraq - is to talk about issues other than Iraq! Even if the war begins to go well, the blood and violence will continue and he will always come out on the short end of the national debate about the war. But if he expands his constituency by addressing issues like global warming, energy independence, and the Iranian and North Korean nuclear threats, he can achieve the approval ratings he needs to govern - and to fight on in Iraq.

Americans will always make time to listen up when the subject is the possibility of a nuclear war. Bush can command a national consensus as he moves against Iran and North Korea. We will pay close attention to anything he does to reduce our dependence on foreign oil and will hail any initiatives that lead to greater consumption of alternatives to gasoline. And Americans are sufficiently cognizant of the dangers posed by climate change to welcome the president to the fold if he indicates a real desire to turn the corner and stop the progression of deadly worldwide warming.

In our hearts and our heads, we realize that the stakes involved in these issues are more important than those in Iraq. If Bush leads the way on these subjects, Americans will follow and even cheer. If he insists on slogging on in Iraq, a majority will continue to be pessimistic and discouraged, but Bush will still be able to summon their support by a focus on the broader agenda on display in Tuesday's address.

Hey, unpoor and montego:

Victory is yours!

You've noised out all but your echos!

Now Paul, play nice.

Posted by: paul on Jan 25, 07 | 2:25 pm

Paul, FYI: you misspelled ‘echoes’… There is an extra e in it.

And now, unpoor, you echo yourself!

Montego, I will have you know that those of us who oppose the military industrial complex and Bush's efforts to establish a Christian Empire to rule the middle east region are not going to go away. You and your fellow wingnuts and neocons are rejoicing prematurely. Paul, I consider you a fairly enlightened person so I assume that you are not part of the right wing cabal that thinks they have taken over this blog completely. Here is another thing, Montego, you are showing your racist stripes again by mocking Jomesha and comparing her post to Perry just because both of their intelligence levels exceed yours by miles. Unpoor, you are so ignorant of history it is so not worth comment but Latvia was part of the USSR with good reasons. There were elections and the elected leaders of Latvia chose to be associated with progressive some would say socialist forces. So what? You cannot revise history to suit your extremist agenda. In terms of germaneness to the topic of Senator Obama, I feel that he is a good man. I feel that he is someone that the people can place confidence in. I am not yet attached to a presidential candidate since I want to see which ones show the most dedication to my strongest issues of women's rights and education and which one will take the lead on ending the immoral worldwide war against Muslim people. I will only give my support to someone who will support economic reforms to force the rich to provide a basic subsistence for the poor and to end homelessness. Shutterhunter, aside from your name which any reference to hunting smacks of violence and militarism, you have made some good points.

DOES IT NOT OCCUR TO ANY OF YOU THAT THE DEMOCRATS IN ILLINOIS WOULD HAVE INVESTIGATED THIS MAN THOROUGHLY BEFORE GIVING HIM THE NOMINATION TO RUN FOR THE SENATE?Posted by: WldFlwr on Jan 22, 07 | 3:35 pm

This is coming from the district where dead people still vote... 3x.

Wildflwr: you have written the dumbest statement ever posted for the year... and it is only January!!!

Huh?


Excuse me but how can you have a dumbest statement for the whole year when the year isn't even hardly started yet?

Posted by: montego on Jan 25, 07 | 8:31 am

That is because the far right wing believers drove them off with insults rather than fact or adult discussion.

Dwarf: you have asked the dumbest question and you also have the dumbest screen handle. Go back to first grade.

Posted by: Baiba on Jan 25, 07 | 4:27 pm

"Shutterhunter, aside from your name which any reference to hunting smacks of violence and militarism, you have made some good points."

That is one of the most revealing posts you could have made, Baiba.

Even when you are giving points for someone making valid points you have to barb it.

Aside from your seemingly obvious socialist tendencies you also want to appear a progressive thinker. The truth of the matter is that you are very judgmental without having the full facts. This whole post is aimed at inflaming the blog and smacks of the favorite tactics of a troll.

Just for the record let me define my screen name, which by the way is also the name of my not so complete website. The shutter part refers to a part of a camera, the hunter alludes to the fact that the main focus of my photography is wildlife and nature. In short, I hunt with a camera rather than a gun.

But I AM NOT a tree hugger. I no longer hunt in the traditional manner as a matter of personal choice. I was raised to believe that you should only hunt that which you will consume. There are few types of wild game that I like to eat so therefore I no longer hunt.

Now to your comment that any reference towards hunting smacks of a militaristic mind set is laughable. There is not one of us whose ancestors did not hunt to survive at some point in our past. To link hunting with war mongering is so laughable that it renders any other point you try to make moot.

a progressive thinker. The truth of the matter is that you are very judgmental without having the full facts.
Posted by: shutterhunter on Jan 25, 07 | 8:21 pm


SH: I think you already identified the issue here, most liberals or as you call them progressive thinkers are very judgmental without having the full facts.

Exactly!

Dick Morris?? IMHO, Morris is probably the most astute political mind in Washington, formerly a Clinton advisor and friend, he is now an enemy of both of them. Any candidate who is interested in getting elected would be ill advised to ignore him. He has shown some very Republican tendencies of late. He is a brilliant political strategist. Like Karl Rove only probably better.

Shutterhunter, I can tell now that you are just as ignorant as the rest of the neocons who proclaim to dominate this site. Troll? Not on your life. If you bothered to look into it, I am a bona fide contributor. I have a valid profile here and unlike some of the others I could name, I have validated myself. You may call me a socialist which is fine because there is no shame in an ideology which merely seeks to impart social justice and equality for the working people of the world. I form my judgements from valid facts and obvious things such as your lack of respect for me. I am convinced now by your own words that you are one of the males who wants the world to think of him as openminded and tolerant but in reality you are every much the neanderthal as Ace and unpoor and their crowd are. They are a bit more honest about who they are. You are just a big fraud.

Shutterhunter, I can tell now that you are just as ignorant as the rest of the neocons who proclaim to dominate this site. Troll? Not on your life. If you bothered to look into it, I am a bona fide contributor. I have a valid profile here and unlike some of the others I could name, I have validated myself. You may call me a socialist which is fine because there is no shame in an ideology which merely seeks to impart social justice and equality for the working people of the world. I form my judgements from valid facts and obvious things such as your lack of respect for me. I am convinced now by your own words that you are one of the males who wants the world to think of him as openminded and tolerant but in reality you are every much the neanderthal as Ace and unpoor and their crowd are. They are a bit more honest about who they are. You are just a big fraud.

Shutterhunter, I can tell now that you are just as ignorant as the rest of the neocons who proclaim to dominate this site. Troll? Not on your life. If you bothered to look into it, I am a bona fide contributor. I have a valid profile here and unlike some of the others I could name, I have validated myself. You may call me a socialist which is fine because there is no shame in an ideology which merely seeks to impart social justice and equality for the working people of the world. I form my judgements from valid facts and obvious things such as your lack of respect for me. I am convinced now by your own words that you are one of the males who wants the world to think of him as openminded and tolerant but in reality you are every much the neanderthal as Ace and unpoor and their crowd are. They are a bit more honest about who they are. You are just a big fraud.

Did you know that 47 countries' have re-established their embassies in Iraq?

Did you know that the Iraqi government currently employs 1.2 million Iraqi
people?

Did you know that 3100 schools have been renovated,364 schools are under
rehabilitation, 263 new schools are now under construction and 38 new schools have been completed in Iraq?

Did you know that Iraq's higher educational structure consists of 20
Universities, 46 Institutes or colleges and 4 research centers, all currently operating?

Did you know that 25 Iraq students departed for the United States in January
2005 for the re-established Fulbright program?

Did you know that the Iraqi Navy is operational? They have 5 - 100-foot
patrol craft, 34 smaller vessels and a naval infantry regiment.

Did you know that Iraq's Air Force consists of three operational squadrons,
which includes 9 reconnaissance and 3 US C-130 transport aircraft (under
Iraqi operational control) which operate day and night, and will soon add 16
UH-1 helicopters and 4 Bell Jet Rangers?

Did you know that Iraq has a counter-terrorist unit and a Commando
Battalion?

Did you know that the Iraqi Police Service has over 55,000 fully trained and equipped police officers? Did you know that there are 5 Police Academies in Iraq that produce over 3500 new officers each 8 weeks?

/////Petreus says he needs 120,000 men -22,000 new troops; 65,000 Iraqi military, 33,000 police = 120,000 men /////

Did you know there are more than 1100 building projects going on in Iraq?
They include 364 schools, 67 public clinics, 15 hospitals, 83 railroad
stations, 22 oil facilities, 93 water facilities and 69 electrical facilities.

Did you know that 96% of Iraqi children under the age of 5 have received the
first 2 series of polio vaccinations?

Did you know that 4.3 million Iraqi children were enrolled in primary school
by mid October?

Did you know that there are 1,192,000 cell phone subscribers in Iraq and
phone use has gone up 158%?

Did you know that Iraq has an independent media that consists of 75 radio stations,180 newspapers and 10 television stations?

Did you know that the Baghdad Stock Exchange opened in June of 2004?

Did you know that 2 candidates in the Iraqi presidential election had a
televised debate recently?

OF COURSE WE DIDN'T KNOW! WHY DIDN'T WE KNOW? OUR MEDIA WOULDN'T TELL US!

Haven't been here for awhile... and BAMM!!! Richstacy is talking up the cleverness of Dick Morris... he was so awfullly clever on that balcony in the bathrobe, don't ya think? His separation from the Clintons came at THEIR request... he didn't "convert"... is he as much of a dirtbag as Rove? Probably... guess that makes him formidable in your esteem...

TRich: That is why i made the point rich. History is repeating itself for the same reasons but it is seen as a mistake to b their in the first place. That is called putting your head in the sand.

WldFlwr: ... Won't you be my Queen ?
Posted by: BobbyGee on Jan 25, 07 | 10:12 am

I consulted one of my five daughters, not the azure hare because she is too close to the circumstance, but another dear wise and trusted friend. After we reviewed the history of the situation she recommended that I suggest to you that the blogger most suited to be your queen would be Rich.

Baiba, I haven't been here for awhile, but I like what you have to say... and I've been unwilling to tangle with some of these closed-minded whatevers ever since they started to tear me apart personally for saying many of the things you've eloquently said...
Re Barack Obama, he's certainly bright, shows great leadership qualities, and I would hope is electable, should he win the nomination... unfortunately, I don't think this country is open-minded enough for a man like this to win... he'd certainly get the college professors and the thinkers... and he'll attract the ethnic voters... but that won't do it... the bozos with the prejudice will tell the pollsters that it doesn't matter... but with that curtain drawn, they're very different animals... evidenced with Lieberman in 2000...
I also respect Hillary Clinton, who has been a great senator for us (I'm a NYer...) and has the qualities that would make for an excellent world leader... if she gets the nod, I'll be proud to support her... but again, enter the prejudiced... probably a 'no sale' to the red staters...
I'm going to think positive thoughts, hoping that the TRUE leader (and the TRUE WINNER in 2000) VP AL GORE gets back into it... he'll probably win the Academy award for his movie (I'm actually in the audience during the original slide presentation that was made into that documentary!) and that recognition just might be the jolt he needs to put him back onto the campaign trail... he'll certainly have the Hollywood people in the palm of his hand if he wants them... and he IS the REAL DEAL... intelligence, sensitivity, EXPERIENCE, all in a vastly more comfortable place now... what a fine representative he'd be for us on the world stage...

Wld: And every one of the iraqis that you talk about above will be dead within 30 days of the last american boot leaving iraq uless they leave with us. If we prevail over two million iraqis in the us will go home. The ones that do not we will tap thier phones because they are staying here to kill us.
The COE isues a bulitin on the construction projects going on in iraq and the media issues a article on the one that is being investigated by the GAO because a democratic senator requested the investigation. All is lost we have met the enemy and it is us.
The blog is history with theother 1000 time employees.

You know what JZ? I did not miss you.

JZ88: I had the prilivage of having an al Gore staunch supporter for a trial attorney and he did a fine gob for me. In fact we have had several good discussions about politics. He is a big believer in the global warming issue and i am not. We have well reasoned discussions and we do not call anbody names. You came back with a blast of name calling. So you do not like Dick morris but he will be on the winning team in the 2008 election like he was in 92 and 96. he is smarter than any canidate currently in the running and carl is not even in the same class with him. May have been but is not now.

Good Ol' TK... you're still ignoring most of your honorable military buddies who've been pushed to the side for not signing on to this continuing waste of our kid's lives... AND WE CREATED THIS MESS... Powell told GHWB in 1991 that if we took out Saddam, we'd "destabilize the region with disastrous consequences!" Elder Bush didn't love Saddam, but listened to REASON...
Yes, we are repeating a very dismal part of our history... do you think that VietNam is better off NOW... or were they better off when we were in the middle of their civil war, prolonging the inevitable?
The Iraqi people should determine their own destiny, now that we've removed the dictator... and they should be given assistance to get their economy moving and their security... but with their sons... NOT OURS... the Iraqi people are suffering a 911 number of deaths EVERY MONTH!!! It is in THEIR best interest that we leave, as well as OURS...
'nough said... it is obvious that when even JOHN WARNER is over with this ridiculous escapade... (and he's a pretty important voice on the REPUBLICAN side) it is way past the time when we should "consider" redeploying, and DO IT... sending in a thumbnail's number of extra troops to serve as extra clay pidgeon targets for the insurgents is not going to change a damned thing... four+ years of bad planning and bad execution have put us here... and we need to cut our losses... It isn't 'cut and run', it is reexamine, redress, and redeploy...

NAME CALLING? What names? Is closed-minded a NAME? I thought it was a description...

Ya Know, TK... I'm not surprised you didn't miss me... I'm too honest and direct... and the facts are painful sometimes... You'd rather have that delusion a la Cheney that we've had some GREAT SUCCESSES in IRAQ... I just don't see any of those successes superceding the mass murder that takes place there EACH AND EVERY DAY... now THAT'S A FACT... one you hate to face...

PS I have no dislike for Dick Morris... you've read into that... but I do feel that he was a fool to be caught that way... as was his boss Wild Bill at the time... oh, and guess what? I still respect both of these men for their political astuteness... Great men shouldn't think with their zippers...

PS TK... please read the POTUS's STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS from Tuesday evening... even GWB has finally accepted the facts about Global Warming... and he was probably the last to do so... (well, not the last... there's still YOU!!!) He even mentioned saving social security... YIPES!!! He was sounding a bit like... like... AL GORE!!!

Posted by: unpoor on Jan 25, 07 | 2:15 pm

Unpoor, if jizz do not like Dick Morris, then I guess he must be a pretty smart guy, why else would the liberals be running away from him?

Jz: Is "dirtbag" a name? and you called two people a dirtbag in one sentence. GWB said bring it on you D's that are going to change the world. Lets see some ideas to fix it. Lets pass a energy bill that fixes the problem. Rather than talk about it. I have been waiting for 6 years to build a windmill with help from the government.
But is dick a "dirtbag"? Jz i do not want to jost over words that so many like to do here. You hear one thing from the POTUS's speech and i hear another. So be it.
BTW. Bush has proposed how to save SS. What did al Gore propose? You and yours said that SS was not broke and killed any saving of SS. What was your proposal? Remember the last thread on this subject is archived.

Jz: Read wlds post on successes. It all about the children getting polio shots is it not?

Any mass murder in any other countries jz? How about Dafur?

jz says of Iraq, "...just don't see any of those successes superceding the mass murder that takes place there EACH AND EVERY DAY... now THAT'S A FACT... one you hate to face."
Now jz, who's doing all that killing? You know of course that it's not us. It's primarily Iraqis killing Iraqis, Sunni vs Shia. Do you have any idea how that killing would multiply if we pulled out as you and your ilk desire?? Of course you don't, you never think things through do you?

well jz Morris is actually one of yours, and he employed all his dirty tricks to get Slick Willy elected. (Yes he is to blame for that) Still absolutely no one denies that he is a brilliant political strategist -- except I guess you.

jz, we didn't miss you because you're just plain nasty. (dirtbag, mass murder and other terms of endearment) Why don't you get into it again with wld and leave the rest of us alone.

JZ Jizz you appear to be the first real Obama/Hillary supporter I have met so please tell me what accomplishments either of these people have done that qualifies them to be the best available candidate from the Democrat party for POTUS?

BTW, the last ecount was done by the liberal media in Florida... the count was in... Bush still would have won.

....that the blogger most suited to be your queen would be Rich.

Posted by: WldFlwr on Jan 25, 07 | 10:19 pm

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ...now that was funny.

jz, go back up and read wld's list of successes in Iraq and refute them if you can.

Everyone wants to get out of Iraq as soon as we can do so without causing horrendous consequences. But it will take time.

Do you want to take responsibility for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Sunnis who will be slaughtered by Shiite militias if we bug out as the Dems want to do? For inviting Iran in and throwing the entire region into chaos? And if Israel has to uncork a few dozen nukes somewhere along the line in order to survive -- why that wouldn't be YOUR fault would it?

We'll leave when we can do so safely, not before. Anything else would be grossly irresponsible.

tk, what am I missing, why do you keep saying that TIME is in trouble?

Rich, go up and read the whole post, Red posted it a couple days ago.
---------

The web site is closing!!!!!!!!!!

You will find it at Posted by: Red- on Jan 19, 07 | 4:51 pm


Liberals, See what happens when you are out of step with your readers.

Quote:
How Many? 289 Out at Time Inc.
Bureaus Closed in D.C., Chicago, Los Angeles
By Nat Ives

Posted by: Red- on Jan 19, 07 | 4:51 pm

Look at that we are a day overdue for a new topic... looks like they all did get fired.

Do any of you know of any other good chat blog site?

Anyone who remembers anything about World War II, or has studied anything about World War II, will understand and remember that during World War II, the Japanese developed a way to demoralize the American forces. The Japanese psychological warfare experts developed a message they felt would work.

They gave their psychological warfare script to their famous broadcaster "Tokyo Rose" and every day she would broadcast this same message packaged in different ways, hoping it would have a negative impact on American an GI's morale.

What was that demoralizing message?

It had three main points:


1. Your President is lying to you.

2. This war is illegal.

3. You cannot win the war.


Does this sound familiar?


Is it because

Tokyo Hillary, Tokyo Harry, Tokyo Teddy, Tokyo Nancy, Tokyo Durbin, Tokyo Kerry, TOKYO MURTHA, etc.

that should be:

Mecca Hillary, Mecca Harry, Mecca Teddy, Mecca Nancy, Mecca Durbin, Mecca Kerry, Mecca MURTHA, etc. have all learned from the former enemies of our country and have picked up the same message and are broadcasting it on:

Tokyo CNN, Tokyo ABC, Tokyo CBS, Tokyo NBC, etc. to our troops?

Come to think of it... Tokyo Rose told the American troops she was on their side, also.

I wish I could claim it as original, but I can't. It was a copy and paste. Here is my original rebuttal to what demokkkrats say about it though.........

1. Your President is lying to you......He said nothing that the top dimokkkrats hadnt already said before he was elected.

Bill Clinton: "If Saddam rejects peace, and we have to use force, our purpose is clear: We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."

Madeleine Albright, Clinton Secretary of State: "We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and the security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction."

Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Advisor and Classified Document Thief: "[Saddam will] use those weapons of mass destruction again as he has ten times since 1983."


2. This war is illegal............Dont think so, congress approved it. http://www.monitor.net/monitor/0210a/iraqdebate3.html


3. You cannot win the war.........Cannot? We could turn the ME into glass today if we wanted to.

Posted by: jz88keys on Jan 25, 07 | 10:32 pm

It's telling of the Democrat's lack of morals that their single most important requirement for a presidential candidate is that he/she favors killing unborn babies.

They can adjust to any other issue..... but don't mess with their holocaust. They derive so much pleasure from daydreaming about mountains of dead babies.

Just as jzz has found solace in Bush's State of the Union speech, I find idiocy. If he thinks that conservation and government mandates to use ethanol are going to eliminate dependence on mideast oil, then he is a bigger fool than jzz is. We have the oil right now, Mr. President. Drill for it. It's under Colorado and Nevada and ANWAR and in the gulf. Let's go get it. Then you can grow a spine and level Saudi Arabia for funding the Islamofascists.

Baiba...

You made insinuations about my name and when I pointed out your misconceptions and took you to task for them you toss me into a pile of others that you have formed opinions of.

That is being called judgmental. PERIOD!

Socialism and Communism are both failed doctrines, off the top of my head I can not think of one nation that has followed them that has prospered under them. Your grandiose Robin Hood ideals of taking from the rich and giving to the poor has never worked. It just pisses off the rich and makes a shiftless class of people dependant on entitlements.

Time and again history has proven that a capitalistic, free market societies are the best systems to encourage personal freedoms.

The problem with your ideals is that you and your ilk want something for nothing. In your cake and circuses world you never stop to consider where the monies come from to pay for your entitlement parties. It’s the fable of the grasshopper and the ant all over again.

What you and your kind fail to grasp is that opportunities exist in this country for any who has the intelligence to see them. Stop whining about how some entity is keeping you down and learn to play the game by their rules.

Believe me, I come from the wrong side of the tracks. We were thought by the Haves to be poor white trash. But my folks knew that a good education was the key to improvement and the couple that neither possessed a diploma made damn sure that all six of their kids had one. With their lead by example style they produced six members of society that have all become financially secure, contribute to their communities, and who honor their parents memories by vowing to leave things better than we found them.

Now if you want to condemn me as a neanderthal just because I think you are full of it then so be it. Coming from the likes of you I’ll wear the title as a badge of honor.

Good grief, jzz and Baiba. What a formidable alliance. LOL

Ace, if you want to visit Perry, jzz, Baiba, Nutman, Cognito and other assorted crackpots, check out DU. I am sure they are all sitting there grousing about Bush and trading conspiracy theories.

It's nice to see that some of the rest of you realize who and what Baiba, cza, Perry and the rest of their crew truly are.

jzz, we did not create the mess in the middle east. We are trying to clean it up. The mess was created by the Islamofascists that you are so happy to defend. It is their fervent goal, based on their religious doctrine, to kill every man, woman and child who is an infidel or non-believer. So what is it going to be? Are you going to convert to Islam? If not, they will kill you if they get the chance. The question is are you willing to fight back? The rest of us are.

If Bush thinks that advocating tax increases, dumping more money into government schools and granting amnesty/more benefits to illegal aliens are going to lead to Republican Victory in 2008, he is more demented than jzz and Karl Rove is not half as smart as Dick Morris.

richgirl, Morris didn't need any dirty tricks to get Clinton elected because you stupid Republicans pick such loser candidates.

Who's running this time? Maybe you can get banana man Dole to run again. LMAO

Grgdols: He wasn't the banana man until after the Viagra.

http://www.vote.com/

This is the site that feeds from Dickmorris.com, it has a bunch of issues that you can vote on and the response is sent to the White House or Pelosi... it depends on what the issue is. Check it out if you have a minute.

WOW... the leopard never changes his spots...
A] I would think that you neocons would be the first to catch married men in robes with hookers "dirtbags"... thought you'd rather ENJOY that... mea culpa
B] Wld, we could have done these WONDERFUL things in Iraq with MONEY and WITHOUT MURDER... I defy to read your list and enumerate which of our good deeds came about as a result of the murdering of civilians... or the setting upon one another the factions we now have aided and abetted in their violence toward one another...
C] Al Gore was lambasted for stating that he'd keep the funds in the SS system 'in a lockbox'... First thing GWB wanted to do was destroy the system and start a bigger, ostensibly better 401K system, which failed... so he emptied the trust fund to spend it... on his ridiculous adventure et al... and on his buddie's companies... (Barbara Bush donated books to NO... so long as they were purchased from her SON'S COMPANY!!!) Notice no mention of New Orleans on Tuesday evening? NO VICTORY THERE EITHER... just missing money, and ravaged neighborhoods untouched for more than 17 months...
D] TOO BAD ACE... Yes, we've been LIED to... Yes, we cannot erase the Muslims of the world who hate us... (Hitler tried to eradicate a race too... is that a GOOD THING??? DID IT WORK???I think not...) and Yes, we cannot WIN this war... because, in raw terms, it is not a case of WINNING a WAR... it IS a case of reforming ideas about the USA so they stop attacking us... and we'll never reform those ideas so long as we're continuing to ATTACK!!! You stop the bully in the school yard by HOLDING HIM DOWN... not by BEATING HIS BRAINS IN... because if that bully survives the beating... he'll only be more angry and will attack again, only with more anger!!!
E] Montego, I think I've covered your comments with a response above, but will elaborate further... no, we did not create the mess in the Middle East... but likewise, we cannot be the world's mother and father... and these are bad little kids... they don't listen... and YES, I am willing to DEFEND OUR OWN... it is our patriotic duty to defend our own... but it is bad policy, plain and simple, to get involved in wars contending that we're protecting our own, when we're NOT... and Saddam had NOTHING to do with 911... we should have overrun Afghanistan, and STAYED there... but NOT IRAQ... that was an old score settled... and look at the profit/loss statements of all of those Bush/Cheney friendly companies who've secured fat deals 'rebuilding' those schools Wld mentioned... or shipping that oil... or sending that 'vaccine' from those insider companies making gazillions... oh... and by the way, do YOU know where that misplaced 10BILLION have gone?

Final point... I'm not a Dem or a Rep... but you're right to call me a Lib... because I believe that EVERYONE should have a shot... and a VOICE... don't try to keep me quiet... because it is people like me who defend YOUR right to rant too...

richstacy: It seems the Time title of this blog really has little to do with time.

The blog is operated by KLC a marketing firm in New Jersey. I still don't know what the connection between the two is, but suspect from the surveys we are periodically asked to take it has something to do with advertisements in Time magazine.

You can e-mail the blog administrator Bob Lussier and he should be able to enlighten you/us about the future of the blog.

Now, to important matters. WldFlwr has demurred in my proposal that she appoint herself Queen of the blog and she has quite graciously suggested you for the position.

I have nothing against a male being referred to as a 'Queen' so if you accept we will have been appointed blog royalty by none other than the doyenne of all bloggers, Madame WldFlwr.

Together I'm sure we can rule judiciously and with much tolerance, even for the intellectually deprived and the comic book readers amongst us.

I look forward to your acceptance of this honor bestowed on us by Her Magnificence from the Realm of the All-Knowing, Madame WldFlwr.

This has nothing to do with Obama and whether or not he is, or ever was, a muslim. I obtained it from a friend of a friend who lived in Saudi Arabia for 11 years. The friend of the second part makes no claim to being 100% accurate in his interpretation of the Koran or Islamic scholarship.

You can do more research if you're so inclined, but here's his take on the question: Can a 'good' Muslim be a 'good' American ?

Theologically: No. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon God of Arabia.

Religiously: No. Because no other religion is accepted by Allah except Islam.

Scripturally: No. Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Koran or Quran.

Geographically: No. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day. ( Not sure I understand this one. I thought it was OK to face the general direction of Mecca.)

Socially: No. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to mingle socially or make friends of Christians or Jews.

Politically: No. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and the Destruction of America, the Great Satan. ( I wonder if all mullahs teach this. )

Domestically: No. Because he is instructed to marry four women and to beat and scourge his wives when they disobey him. ( Hmm. Part of this sounds good if I had the stamina for four, the beating part excepted )

Intellectually: No. Because he cannot accept the United States Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and the Bible is identified as corrupt.

Philosophically: No. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. All Muslim governments are either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually: No. Because when we declare "one nation under God" the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is never referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever referred to in loving terms in the Quran's 99 terms of reference.

If this is true then perhaps it would be wise to be suspicious of all muslims in the U.S. Not intolerant, as they are, but certainly suspicious. It seems they cannot be both 'good' muslims and 'good' Americans.

If you find yourself intellectually in conflict with the above statements perhaps you should share this with friends and family. The more who are aware of these precepts, the better it may be for our country and our future.

If anyone can dispute any of the above, and offer proof that a precept is in error, please do so.

You guys are funny.

Jz: my first reaction is HUH?

Upon a second reading:
1. We tried to build without controling the terriosts. They blew up what we built. Some of the missing money.

2. The civilians got killed because when we attempted to kill the terriosts the targets mingled with the populance. We have experiance with that from VN.

3. I do not understand your triade about SS. The trust fund has never had anything in it since the democratic made it part of the general fund sometine in the 80's. During the past couple of years the budget deficit has been cut in half from what it was after 911. The speach said that it will be balanced by 2009 or 10. No the war is not included in that because if the country would unite the war would be over by the end of 2007. But the D's can not let that happen because they would have no chance to get elected in 2008.

4. I agree jz that we must reform the ideas our enemies have about us. How do you propose to do that. It appears that we would have to rewrite Mohamads book to accomplish that for all followers of his. We are listening for an alterative from you.

5. every school yard fight i ever saw ended when some geek beat the crap out of the bully and every time the bully picked a new target the strong geek was by his side. Schoolyard peace. Will work the same in the world. It did with Russia and they died with old age. The kid is growing up again in russia.

6. I fail to see how you can determine that the ME is not a threat to the united states. Some in the middle east have said they will kill us all. The leader said that he will kill all of our army or 10 of our armys. If you talk to him he will change his mind? If you believe that i believe that the government can give you a trip to iraq to talk to him. Heck John Kerry went and talked to the negotiator for the NVA. Who was a women also. Heck you can be a hero.

You served on the team to elect al Gore did you not? And you claim to not be a Democrat? You can not be believed with that kind of inconsistancy.

BG: Best presentation yet on the teaching of Islam. If it were different the good ones here in the united states would form a militia and kill the bad ones or throw them out of the good moske.
Yes occasionaly you hear a Iman say that only some are bad but no action. Much like the D's. They never oust one for being off the track they just endorse them, no mater if they are corrupt or not. In fact they promote them and make them chairman of committees. Where the R's throw them out, and are condemmed for doing so. The world is nuts.

I'm not a Dem or a Rep... Posted by: jz88keys on Jan 26, 07 | 9:43 am

we know, you are an useful idiot.

The blog is operated by KLC a marketing firm in New Jersey. Posted by: BobbyGee on Jan 26, 07 | 9:58 am

Those are the first budget items to be cut!

Baiba, if you validate yourself too often, you may go blind.

You state that you have no shame in being a socialist because socialism attempts to apply morality to society in order to achieve justice. Interestingly, that morality of yours, altruism, is precisley the problem. Altruism seriously misrepresents important aspects of the human condition. As a coonsequence, socialism and its associate political ideologies have faiiled absolutely every time someone has attempted to apply them to society.. Perhaps you should examine your morality more closely and then decide how much pride it actually can confer on you. Millions of lives have been destroyed by altruism and socialism. Perhaps one of them should not be yours.

drd: see you on the other thread.

grgdols says, "you stupid Republicans pick such loser candidates.

Who's running this time? Maybe you can get banana man Dole to run again. LMAO"

Thanks for reminding us who the lowest common demnominator on the blog is. You are still "IT"

Shutter, re your 8:00AM post to baiba. excellent!

All, I have not left, as previously stated, I am just taking a brief sabbatical. Sometimes one needs to back off and evaluate their and other's thoughts and if applicable, refocus.

jz88keys:

A] We are not nearly as convinced of our perfection as you folks are, jz. What married men in or our of robes is between them, their wives, and The Lord.

B] We are doing wonderful things in Iraq with money. Lots of them with lots of money. You just don't hear about it from a drive-by media dedicated to presenting the worst possible image ot our actions in Iraq because of an irrational hatred of President Bush.

We are NOt murdering civilians and even you can't be so foolish to believe that we are. The so-called "Sectarian Violence" is actually a largely guerilla action against the United States and innocent Iraquis by Iran (Shiia), and Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan in the case of the Sunnis. These "Fighters" have taken to sneak attacks on Iraqis because the same attacks on American soldiers proved to be too dangerous.

C] Al Gore seems to have some sort of fascination for things that do not exist. His film, "An Inconveniennt Truth" turns out on examination to be a compilation of half-truths and falsehoods, and there has never been such a thing as "A Lockbox" for Social Security Funds. Needless to say, that which does not exist, cannot be stolen from; By President Bush, or anyone else. Have you been lied to. Of course you have, but not by President Bush. And most, but not all of the corruption bedeviling New Orleans is the result of misbehavior by the Democrats who actually have run the place for decades. I know more than a little about this, as I used to live in the French Quarter.

No one can win a war against a concept. Terrorism is a strategy, not an enemy. This is President Bush's fault. He failed to face up to our real enemies in the middle east and instead came up with a phoney baloney "War on Terrorism" Shame on him. President Franklin Roosevelt was not so foolish as to declare war on "Military Aggression" or "Sneak Attacke". President Roosevelt was man enough to seek a Declaration of War agains the Empire of Japan, the nation using those tactics against the United States. Too bad our President is a Bush and not a Tree.

If one is going to exercise one's VOICE, one should also exercise one's MIND, Jz88keys. Give it some thought.

So what's slower? Vermont maple syrup in sub zero weather or Cindy's brain wave activity?

She's soliciting the help from a small town council to get Bush impeached.

Last I checked it was the US House of reps who hold responsibility for getting the impeachment ball rolling.

What a maroon!

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/10852876/detail.html

Posted by: DrDarryl on Jan 26, 07 | 2:46 pm

Great post, I have not seen someone this bitch slapped since Bishop took on nutman.

JZZ the list of things we have helped the Iraqis accomplish are the very things their vicious dictator refused to do. All of the MONEY in Iraq was building palaces, not going to the people outside the Triangle. The only way to give the Iraqi people the freedom to build their country was to take out Sadaam and go after his henchmen to give the people the freedom to help themselves. WE are not killing the civilians, the insurgents are commiting the suicide bombings blowing up mosques during prayers, blowing up markets, killing the police. They are not even targeting us. The military dying now are coming across IEDs that target anyone unfortunate to drive over one.

You are just WRONG about all of this.

And YOU would not last a week in the culture you think you are endorsing. They have no use for strident independent women - it would be off with your silly head the first time you opened your loud mouth. Women only live freely in the kind of society we have in America.

Name ONE Communist country with women in the lead.

Everything you think you believe in would destroy you in a heartbeat if it was unleashed here.

It is just bothersome that you abuse the freedom other people give their lives for.
That is just the unhappy fact, that the freedom earned is going to be wasted on you.

The bully in the schoolyard doesn't stop until he's dead.

The vaccines were DONATED by the drug companies thru the United Nations, companies that donate millions every year to help the truly indigent in this world. They may be robbing some of us blind but all of the big pharamceutical companies now have programs offering free meds to the poor in this country as well.

Left alone Sadaam would have proceeded with his weapons systems and would have very cheerfully sold to Al Qaida. One AQ leader lived very comfortably and safely in Baghdad. They were very WELCOME in Baghdad. While bin Laden would very happily have offed Sadaam as the infidel he was, he would have purchased the arms first.

People like you defending our right to rant? Not unless you are wearing a uniform and you have sand in your boots!

Wldflwr, remember when liberals actually cared about human rights? Now they seem to care more about the rights of thugs and terrorists.

I think I like this guy....

'08 DEMS: THE MORNING LINE - NOT THE RACE HILLARY EXPECTED

By DICK MORRIS & EILEEN MCGANN

January 25, 2007 -- And they're off!

First out of the starting gate, with an unexpected burst of speed is the late entrant Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill). Not on anybody's radar six months ago, he has already vaulted right over half a dozen others to land close on Hillary's heels in second place.

But Obama faces the key decision: Where is he - still a virtual virgin in national politics - going to position himself? He could run as your standard Democratic liberal - that fits his two-year Senate record of party loyalty (18th most liberal, according to National Journal). But he'd clearly prefer to follow the dictates of his own book and craft a modern triangulated path, running as the "New Democrat" that Bill Clinton was in 1992.

In a run to the center, he'd continue to attack the unpopular war in Iraq, but also appeal for a post-partisan environment - embodying the emerging broad consensus that decries impeachments, government closure, partisan gerrymandering and take-no-prisoners negative campaigning.

But he'll have to fight Hillary for that turf - after all, her husband carved it out first, and she's now invested several years of her own labor into the claim.

Poor Hillary: She suddenly finds herself eclipsed by the phenomenon du jour - the first African-American to have a serious shot at the White House. At the same time, another woman - House Speaker Nancy Pelosi - has become the trailblazer for women in U.S. politics.

For the first time since she entered electoral politics, Clinton is having trouble finding enough oxygen in the room. Obama and Pelosi are sucking most of it up.

Yet the real threat to both Hillary and Obama may be coming from left field. Former VP candidate John Edwards has tacked decisively to the left, leading the way in opposing the war.

Daringly, Edwards challenged Hillary right in her New York City backyard on Martin Luther King Day - insisting that "silence is betrayal" on Iraq, much as King said it was on Vietnam.

President Bush's Iraq "surge" energizes the Edwards challenge - and sticks Clinton and Obama in an awkward spot.

All three Democrats will condemn the sending of more troops - but Bush will proceed anyway. The left will demand a cutoff in funding to force troop levels down - and expect Democratic officeholders to deliver.

But Clinton has said she wouldn't vote for a funding cutoff, and Obama probably won't either. That leaves Edwards - who has the luxury of not having to vote - with the strongest antiwar position of the three.

In the past, Hillary has sought to make up for her support for the war by moving left on other issues and increasing the stridency of her attacks on Bush. But that tactic gets riskier now - could it let Obama take the center away from her?

By grabbing all of the money and most of the consultants, Obama, Edwards and Clinton seem to leave no running room for Al Gore or any of the other wannabes. (Sorry, Connecticut Sen. Chris Dodd - you deserve a chance, but you haven't got one.) At best, like New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, they can hope to wind up with the vice-presidential nomination.

Clinton is still the likely winner. She'll have more money, more party support and an army in reserve: tens of millions of single women who've never voted before will come out for her. But she better do better in the stretch than she has in her flat-footed start.

Let the race begin!

Thanks for calling me an idiot, unpoor... same to you and many more... and incidentally, I'm no idiot so the joke's on you...
Re my reference to being a Liberal rather than a Republican or a Democrat allow me to elaborate...
I've worked for BOTH parties... the CANDIDATE and the MESSAGE TRUMP the LABEL...
But I've always supported the rights of EVERYONE to succeed... something you people seem to loathe... so have a nice life...

Hey, I said "useful idiot" as described by the comunist party. Regardless, your are welcome. : )

If anyone can dispute any of the above, and offer proof that a precept is in error, please do so.

Posted by: BobbyGee on Jan 26, 07 | 10:54 am

Bobby, I believe it's your implication that the members of our military who are Muslim aren't worthy of wearing the Red White & Blue, and aren't really American.

I truly don't buy into the whole crate'em up and ship'em out mentality that so many here suggest. Those Muslims are doing more for our safety and freedoms than most of us. It kind of lends faithfulness to the idea that many common Muslims don't support terror and 3rd world antics, and are quite capable of assimilating into the rest of society with no ulterior motives.

If I am wrong, we'll obviously cross that bridge when we get there. I don't believe in jumping from point B to point N.

For the sake of argument, does the Catholic church still operate as it did in the middle ages? Of course not, and the fact that many in the Muslim world still do does not lay blanket claim to the notion that all Muslims should be lumped into that category.

The assertion of your post is that there is no such thing as a good Muslim. So I must ask, are they born evil? Or are they merely indoctrinated from birth by the leadership in many Muslim countries? It's clearly the latter.

FYI, everyone - the blog is still alive and well. I will be posting a new topic shortly. In fact, I am considering revamping the entire site with some new features to make it even more interactive. Keep posting, we're listening!

Posted by: KLC on Jan 26, 07 | 6:03 pm

Bob, speaking for everyone here I think I can say it is nice to see you still have a job.

Thanks bob. Ditto above. More spammers on old threads. You dod not get them all. Can you shoot them? or just put them in jail?
I was thinking this would b the end.

Well jz any comments on our comments? Or just have a nice life. What does that mean? Is that political correct for shove it where the sun does not shine?

Tk: Do you know what my biggest fear is?

Muslims attack in the U.S. and hit the ACLU, the DNC, American communist party, American socialist party, abortion centers, the porn industry, illegal alien complexes, and Barbra Streisand's house.

The impulse to kick back, grap a cup of coffee and watch, might be insurmountable.

Shoelander: I thought I made it abundantly clear that I personally am not claiming the opinions posted are correct in each instance. I'm sure there are many muslims, including those who serve in the military, who do not fit the precepts required to be a 'good' muslim whatever that is, just as whatever a 'good' American or 'good' Catholic may be. I've not asserted anything. I merely posted the belief of a person who lived in Saudi Arabia for 11 years.

I've never advocated a "crate 'em up and ship 'em out mentality....". I do advocate a careful watch where there is evidence muslims belonging to certain muslim organizations may have been "merely indoctrinated from birth by leadership in many Muslim countries".

It appears you believe that intolerant Muslims are a small minority. Perhaps you even hope, as I do, that mainstream Muslims will reclaim their religion and purge it of the fundamentalists who, without question seek the destruction of Western civilization and the domination of Islam throughout the world.
The evidence abounds that there are millions of muslims who would like to subjugate our culture or destroy it. There is no evidence that there is a substantial number of Muslims who intend to do anything to stop those with that mindset. There is evidence that those Muslims who dare to speak up and out against intolerance and oppression of the infidels (of which I am one), risk not ostracism and marginalization, but death.

I'm concerned that there may not be a "bridge" to cross "when we get there".
In the war on terror we have to choose whether our love of diversity will continue to be greater than our love of life. Our pride in our tolerance will not protect us from zealots. In fact, it protects the zealots from us.

For many Muslims the call to prayer is a call to action. As long as we in the West continue to ignore the very real, very vocal threat from Islam, then we will continue to be victims of our own good nature.

unpoor,

One of my fears is that you show up as the "friend" of an invited quest at my Thanksgiving or Christmas or Easter dinner and attempt the same inappropreate topics of conversation as you do here.

Everyone else is apalled <sp?>.

So apalled <sp?> that you wind up eating your dinner alone in a corner kitchen table.

Manners.

You have no sense of them.

KLC that's good news. CAN WE HAVE EMOTICOS? CAN WE? CAN WE? CAN WE? HUH? PLEEAASE........!

EMOTICONS

"Muslims attack in the U.S. and hit the ACLU, the DNC, American communist party, American socialist party, abortion centers, the porn industry, illegal alien complexes, and Barbra Streisand's house."

UNPOOR RIGHT ON! THOSE are the very people they would attack first - those "immoral infidels". Those who live quiet Christian lives, and yes even Jewish lives, or even atheist lives, would be safer than those rip-sortin' do-your-own-thing people - at least at first - because we not break all the moral rules.

I have had conversations with muslims who start out aggresive and defensive and once they learn that not all Americans want to kill all muslims they calm down and we can have actual discussions. When we emphasize the common grounds we get along fine. When I don't want to kill them then they don't want to kill me.

The media keeps zeroing in on the crazed radicals and we have those in every religion! They are the MINORITY in every group.

The strident womenslibbers we see here would be in grave danger! And they would be the first to scream for the establishment to save them.

AGAIN - JZ name one communist nation with women in the leadership. Our government has women at all levels except the Presidency and that could change soon.

There are some 3.5 million muslims in America who live quietly and enjoy our quality and style of living. There is no way they are going to allow their lives to go backwards a few hundred years, their women giving up the freedoms they have here, their children giving up the opportunities our society affords them. They would fight the terrorists with the rest of us to maintain their lives. They don't seem to suffer the horrific poverty our other immigrants face which is probably why we do not see them demonstrating in our streets.

I once posted a sarcastic remark about the "riots in Detroit and Nashville". The point, of course, was that THERE WERE NO RIOTS IN DETROIT OR NASHVILLE. Since sarcasm doesn't play well on a blog, for the next several days one poster kept asking me to give the link about the riots! I reiterate, THAT WAS THE POINT - NO LINKS BECAUSE THERE WERE NO RIOTS. I just let it go and I imagine the hapless blogger spent days googling muslim riots in American cities. IF so I hope he learned his lesson -that American muslims are not at the boiling point we see on other continents. So far so good.

Of course if we lose our minds and go crazy over Senator Obama who is not even muslim, we could lose the peace we enjoy for now.

Okay, here’s where I throw down the gauntlet.

For those of you who think that we should pull out of Iraq and think that myself and the others in here who advocate that we would do so at our great peril are completely wrong, tell us why.

Don’t spit out the party line or stamp your foot like a petulant child and say just because. I would like to hear solid reasons. I also want to hear your plan to ensure that we will never have to return to the region to protect our interest. But don’t expect me to buy regional diplomacy as a plan because as BobbyGee’s earlier post spelled out, due to their own religious doctrine these people are under no compulsion to deal with infidels.

I encourage you to look at the big picture, beyond the border of Iraq.

Turkey, a long time friend, has been distancing itself from us over the last decade. Remember, they refused to allow us to use the bases that we built to stage for the invasion of Iraq. Now, as a sovereign nation it is perfectly within their right to do so but it’s a little alarming when you consider that Turkey is 99.8% Muslim and most of that Sunni. Add the fact that they also are none to happy of the status of the Kurds in northern Iraq (one of the mitigating reasons for their refusal to allow us to use the bases). One wonders what their reaction will be should all out civil war erupt in Iraq and thousands of Kurds flee towards their border to escape.

Iran and Syria. It doesn’t take much world savvy to know what direction they will head with our absence in the region.

Saudi Arabia. Many point to their complicity in the World Trade Center Attacks. This stand is correct and wrong at the same time. The issues in S.A. are very complex. While it is ruled under Islamic Law it is still a traditional Monarchy ruled by the House of Saud with King Abdallah as it’s current head of state. Because of their long friendship with the west there are many fundamentalist who would like nothing better than to destroy the House of Saud and turn Saudi Arabia into a Islamic theocracy.

While it’s almost certain that the heads of the House of Saud had nothing to with 9/11 it just as certain that factions within the Kingdom did. If you can’t read the list of where the suicide bombers came from and realize that there was some sort of connection then please bow out of the discussion now. But because there is blood on the hands of some within the country it does not make the entire Kingdom guilty. This is akin to our own dirty little non-secret that for years our good Irish American factions in Boston and New York funneled money to the IRA. Yet given this you never seen any English screaming to declare war on us.

Lebanon. All you have to do is read today’s headlines to see where that country could be heading. And if you don’t think that Syria and Iran don’t have their dirty little hands in this then you have another think coming.

Israel. The people of this country have made paranoia a political doctrine, with very good reason. They stand with their backs against the sea, surrounded by enemies and no place to retreat to. They’ve made it no secret that they will do what is necessary for their survival. If we leave Iraq you’ll see a new type of domino theory at work here and I fear the reaction that the Jewish state will take to preserve itself.

There are a number of other issues that fall into the trials and tribulations of this section of the world but the above should be enough to scare your pants off. It’s small wonder that they’ve just moved the Doomsday Clock two minutes closer to midnight.

Now, considering that any one of these afore mentioned powder kegs could be enough to spark WW III do you really think that our pulling out is a good idea? Yes we screwed up big time when we went into Iraq but we made our bed and now we have to sleep in it.

PAUL it is a fairly safe bet that few on this blog behave the same way in their stilted mundane lives. Blogs and chatrooms are vents. Paunchy balding gentlemen can swash their buckle, bravely insulting the men, and boldly flirting with the women - if they can figure out which is which. Graying old maids with thick glasses, in gawdy white plastic frames, can be strident and racy. Those who would not look anyone in the eye in person can add cavalier bravado in chasing the demons they hide from in life. Their slow shuffle becomes a purposeful stride. They can take a drag and have a sip and smile at the ceiling, captains of their blog - strong, brave and obnoxious as 'ell.

But should you inadvertently issue an invitation they would show up resolute, gracious and entirely dull. So you are safe.

SHUTTER - WOW eloquent, thorough and right!

Thanks Wld. I find endless amusement at my own expense that I was one of the minority that was against the Iraqi invasion and now I’m one of the minority against pulling out of Iraq.

Go figure.

Perhaps it’s just a testament that situations change, often rapidly in a time of war. The left that is capitalizing on the war weariness of this nation had better gain some foresight, stop worrying about the things that we can’t change, and figure out that we have had a major dose of mission creep that has changed everything. The alternatives are just too dire to contemplate and not start looking for a cave of our own.

I stridently believe that it is long over due that we stop using our armed forces as policemen over there and turn them loose to do the job they were trained to do.

Posted by: paul on Jan 26, 07 | 7:52 pm

Paul, inappropreate? ...did you happen to mean inappropriate? The word is spelled with an ia instead of ea... and you make your living around writing?

Paul, please don't quit your day job.

UNPOOR RIGHT ON! THOSE are the very people they would attack first - those "immoral infidels". Posted by: WldFlwr on Jan 26, 07 | 9:00 pm

thanks, I thought at least one of you guys would appreciate the post and agree.

Posted by: WldFlwr on Jan 26, 07 | 9:38 pm

No... my wife read what you wrote and only agrees with the first part... the strong, brave and obnoxious as 'ell part.

It is my passion to attack liberals and their stupidity where ever I may find them. The internet, schools, job site are my canvas.

back to topic...

I think it's safe to say that Osama Obama (banana fanna fo fama) won't get the nomination in 2008, basically because he's not a Clinton. So if he's still a "rock star" at that time and someone (Hillary) takes him as a running mate, wouldn't that just hand the election to the GOP? I have to say yes. Think Hillary would do that?

Other than to quell the sense of white guilt that still hobbles idiot liberals to this day, what qualifications does this dipstick have to run this country? I will never vote for anyone who has so much of a whiff of raghead in him. If that makes me a racist, then too friggin' bad. I still have the right to vote.

Posted by: Shoelander on Jan 26, 07 | 5:58 pm

No, a good muslims cannot be a good American. The two roles are mutually exclusive.

Why? Because islam is the only “religion” which claims that it is the sacred responsibility of its adherents to see that the American government be operated in subordination to the edicts of its clerics.

Faith in Islamic Law is part and parcel of faith in islam, and faith in Islamic Law directly contradicts the principle of separation of church and state.

Islamic Law mandates the state to be subordinate to the dogma of islam. The state's adherence to Islamic Law is overseen by religious figures, ideally the caliphate.

Muslims, by the very definition of what it means to be a muslim, believe in Islamic Law with all their heart and soul.

The beliefs of muslims are diametrically opposed to U.S. style democracy, so they should be denied citizenship. Given that muslims living among us now pose the greatest threat to our national security, denial of citizenship should be accompanied by deportation of the obvious troublemakers.

What other religion tells it believers that America is the House of War because it is ruled by people of a different faith?

By allowing 3 million muslims to walk among us, we are asking for big trouble.

Posted by: BobbyGee on Jan 26, 07 | 7:22 pm

Sure they can! If they can live by the laws of decency, and not act on the calling of these terrorist nut jobs.

So let the sorting out begin.

Who you got in mind for that job?

And what to do, what to do.... with the ones that won't.

Sen. Kerry held a press conference in Iowa today and said he was confident he would win the democrat party nomination for president in 08. He later admitted to reporters from the drive by media that he decided not to run for president before he decided to run for president again. Kerry has already contacted Barack Obama and offered him the job of VP according to campaign adviser Monica Lewinsky.

vip: Muslims don't give a rip about your culture, how nice you are, or what you believe. All they know is that you are an infidel, and their holy book says it's ok to kill you.

Posted by: WldFlwr on Jan 26, 07 | 9:20 pm

Educating America on the true threat of Islam is wrong? Over the years the country has cleary turned more against Islam and a large part of that is because of all the threads across the net about Islam. Over the past few years, I have received over 100 pm's or emails thanking me for posting these threads as they had no idea how bad it is.

The problem is ISLAM, not militant Islam and speaking about our country and the left does not address the issue which needs to be dealt with head on. Uneducation and being pc is the reason the problem has gotten this far.

Can someone please tell me why these people are allowed in the West?


Montreal man refuses religious divorce to Muslim wife he stabbed Dene Moore, Canadian Press
Published: Friday, January 26, 2007 Article tools
Printer friendly

MONTREAL (CP) - The Crown says a Montreal man's refusal to grant his Muslim wife a Shariah divorce should be considered an aggravating factor when he is sentenced Friday for stabbing her and their baby daughter.

Other than that, there is nothing the courts can do for the woman, whose husband pleaded guilty to two counts of aggravated assault to avoid attempted murder charges.

That, say advocates, is the problem with the refusal to recognize Shariah law in the Canadian judicial system.

Observant Muslim women, especially those who emigrated from Islamic countries, feel they have nowhere to turn, said Shahina Siddiqui, executive director of the Winnipeg-based Islamic Social Services Association.

"Many, many times we see this," Siddiqui said.

Both Quebec and Ontario have passed laws banning the use of any religious tribunals - Muslim, Jewish or otherwise - to settle family law disputes like custody and divorce.

But many Muslim women want a Shariah stamp of approval, "especially if they're going to travel abroad," Siddiqui said.

In the current case, the 31-year-old man, who cannot be named to protect the identity of his daughter, attacked his wife in their Montreal apartment in February 2006, stabbing her several times, including in the face.

He then stabbed the infant girl twice in the stomach. She spent 10 days in hospital recovering.

The man testified at his sentencing hearing earlier this week that he will not agree to a divorce under Shariah law in Canada.

"The issue of the divorce will be decided over there," he told the judge, referring to their home country of Lebanon.

He also denied he needed treatment for his violent behaviour.

The Crown has asked for a seven-year sentence, citing the refusal to grant the Shariah divorce as an aggravating factor.

The defence has suggested a three-year sentence.

The woman earlier told the court she would like to return to her family in Lebanon but without the religious divorce and worries she could be forced to return to her husband or face charges of abducting her own daughter.

"They had a religious marriage in Lebanon and if she returns she could have problems," Crown lawyer Sophie Lavergne told the judge.

Critics say it's an example of the inequality of women in Shariah law that a man can simply refuse a religious divorce, even in such a case.

"The poor woman," said Nuzhat Jafri, spokeswoman for the Canadian Council of Muslim Women.

"She can get a legal divorce in Quebec. . . . Whether or not it is recognized in Lebanon is another matter."

Siddiqui suggested the woman ask an imam or a panel of Muslim scholars to acknowledge the court divorce.

"The Koran is very clear that you cannot keep women in a marriage against their will," she said.


For more....

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=5d5ee62b-8433-412f-aeaa-daffbc0c2396&k=63641

Sneauxman, I get your angst, but the name calling shows what you are, I make every attempt to be understanding, but you are what you are, a bigot. I gather you like being so so swathe yourself in it, enjoy it and continue to fester in it. I don't dislike you, I pity you and others like you that have a derisive name for every race/religion you apparently look down on. Please don't give me that "liberal" garbage either, I am far from it, you disgraceful, insensensitve human being.
Muslims give me a big case of the jaws, but as silly as they are, they like everyone else, don't need the name calling and slurs. You probably don't get it, and so be it, but you and others on this site need to clean your act up, get rid of the swasticas, and come correct. I await your response and disrespect and have many measured responses to what ever venom you spit out.

Sneauxman, I get your angst, but the name calling shows what you are, I make every attempt to be understanding, but you are what you are, a bigot. I gather you like being so so swathe yourself in it, enjoy it and continue to fester in it. I don't dislike you, I pity you and others like you that have a derisive name for every race/religion you apparently look down on. Please don't give me that "liberal" garbage either, I am far from it, you disgraceful, insensensitve human being.
Muslims give me a big case of the jaws, but as silly as they are, they like everyone else, don't need the name calling and slurs. You probably don't get it, and so be it, but you and others on this site need to clean your act up, get rid of the swasticas, and come correct. I await your response and disrespect and have many measured responses to what ever venom you spit out.

Posted by: jz88keys on Jan 26, 07 | 9:43 am

Well, by all means we must redress all of bin Laden's grievances. Then there will be peace. What's that? Even if we give him everything he wants, the jihad ideology still mandates warfare against and the subjugation of unbelievers? What are you, some kind of Islamophobe?

wintersoldier, ALL Muslims DO NOT have to think the same. Hundreds of millions is more then enough. But either you constantly ignore this point or do not understand the point.

The Islamic agenda moves forward EVERYDAY and all you do is come up with excuses and whinning about name calling.

Sneuaxamn, that still does not belie the fact that you are a bigot, get it ? Whine may be what you call, it but pinning the name on the donkey is what I call it.

If being a bigot, in your mind, means raising the alarm, outing militant Islam within our county, and saving American lives, my kids, your grandchildren.

Thank you for the title.

Bush - gives okay to kill Irani operatives in Iraq - FINALLY

The only amazing part to me is that our military were apparently instructed in the past to "catch and release" Irani operatives found in Iraq. Good Lord exactly where did Bush learn the "art of war"???????????????????? Either let our military do their job or let them come home and defend our borders from the hordes that are pouring in and the hordes that are sure to follow.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/25/AR2007012502199.html

Sneauxman, come on back slick. I would love to respond to some more of your smart aleck, narrow minded comments. Bigot!!!

Winter: I submit that the two most pressing issue for the U.S. are illegal
immigrants, and islamofascists; right here in the good ol' U S A. All the other problems, not directly in our front yard, get relegated to third place and on.

Sneauxman, we agree wholeheartedly on that point.

I await your response and disrespect and have many measured responses to what ever venom you spit out.
Posted by: wintersoldier on Jan 27, 07 | 12:48 am

Winter, See you are coming around... and for the record I have never called you a name, ever, ever, and I feel that personal name calling from someone like you with your respected background is some what a let down. When you were in uniform you never used epitaphs for those who are trying to hurt you?

I have nothing but love for ya.

...and respect.

This test only has one question, but it's a very important one.

By giving an honest answer, you will discover where you stand morally. The test features an unlikely, completely fictional situation in which you will have to make a decision. Remember that your answer needs to be honest, yet spontaneous. Please read slowly and give due consideration to each line.

You are in Florida, Miami to be specific.

There is chaos all around you, caused by a hurricane, with severe flooding. This is a flood of biblical proportions.

You are a photojournalist working for a major newspaper, and you're caught in the middle of this epic disaster. The situation is nearly hopeless. You're trying to shoot career-making photos.

You are safe and dry on the top floor balcony of your hotel. There are houses and people swirling around you, some disappearing under the water. Nature is unleashing all of its destructive fury.

Suddenly you see a woman in the water. She is fighting for her life, trying not to be taken down with the debris. You move closer.

Somehow the woman looks familiar. You suddenly realize who it is. It's Hillary Clinton!

At the same time you notice that the raging waters are about to take her under . . . forever.

You have two options--you can save the life of Hillary Clinton, or you can shoot a dramatic Pulitzer Prize winning photo, documenting the death of one of the world's most powerful women.

So here's the question, and please give an honest answer:

Would you select high contrast color film, or would you go with the classic simplicity of black and white?

When I tried to answer this honestly, I came to the conclusion that I probably would have dropped my still camera, and grabbed my video camera instead!

BobbyGee:

"They hope is that the choose to live in the present rather than the past that they live in now. Surely these folks aren't born evil."

I recognize that you doing so would lend more to the idea that this picture isn't as black and white as you're painting it.


"Where are all of the fanatical suicide bombing Muslims here in the United States?" The twin towers for a start. Since then they have been testing the waters.

If you read the koran, it has much in comparison to Sun Tzus "Art of War" I would not doubt it if it were discovered that all the agricultural poisonings that occurred with Taco Bell, spinach and other food sources were tests by terrorists to see what was possible. The koran teaches that duplicity is acceptable in the name of allah and winning by any means necessary is fine. Their numbers are not large enough to win, so they can only wait and see what they might be able to use to defeat us.

I agree that it is folly to try to force democracy on islam. They have their own theocracy spelled out in the koran. This makes islam less of a religion and more of an ideology.


"Surely these folks aren't born evil."


No, but it can be taught from birth.

The answers are not always black and white, but the koran and related writings such as the haddith do spell out the difference between a "good" muslim and a "bad" muslim. A "good" muslim can never be a friend to a non muslim, unless there is a strategic reason for doing so. A "bad" muslim will disregard allah and follow a peaceful path.

I really can't see how this is an argument. It is written. Read it.

Sneauxman, When I was in or out of uniform I didn't use the epitaphs because business is business. the guys I served with, My so called "brothers" were tight in combat , but when they came home me and mine turned back into you know what's. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now. The nicknames I find offensive, and the Irish in Boston were and probably are still worse than any redneck you'll find down south.
I see you were offended by my dialogue and it was done with a point in mind. Believe me, I feel no malice toward folks on this site, I just find certain labels offensive. My enemy is not my friend, but I would rather shoot him than waste my time calling him goofy names. I'm quirky that way.

Muslims are commanded to deceive infidels to gain a lethal advantage over them.

To a man, they are single minded in their pursuit of killing every human being who is not "one of them."

BobbyGee, the question is moot because muslims don't want to be Americans. Don't they hate the USA?
Perhaps they only hate what America exports to the world in the form of trashy movies, TV, talk shows, etc.
But they have the same choice as we to change the channel or turn off the TV! Instead their responses are completely psychotic: 'America has trashy media so we muslims shall cut your heads off, you infidels!'
But they sure do want our money!
ghbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbv

I lasted 32 posts on randirhoades.com!

Then got banned for telling the truth. Here's what happened:

The discussion was focused on the Iraq war. There were several mods arguing with me over this since I had links cites and quotes to back up my statements and this is too much for most Libs.

One person told me to "join the army and ship off to Iraq" and that jazz. I told him "If I wasn't 47 with a broken toe, I would have joined up after 9/11 with all the other brave souls that enlisted on that day and I would have gladly given my life so you could sit behind your computer and express your hatred towards America.

Whoops!

I then got lambasted for that remark and one of the mods demanded an apology from me. I then said "Anyone who does not stand behind their President in a time of war has betrayed his own country. There will be no apology."

I was then banned.

Does anyone disagree with me on that point?

Liberals are always preaching tolerance, and freedom of speech... unless of course they have to be tolerant of our freedom to speak... you see it here.

Two America's, John Edwards new home is 28,200 sq ft.

I wonder which America he is from?

.......from telling me how to live my life more energy-effficient. Sorry John, I'll compare my electrical or water bill with yours any day, or for that matter, fuel consumption for transportation within a year's time. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with wealthy people clearing out acres of forest and building 28,000 sq. foot homes. Go nuts. Just don't turn around and preach to me about conserving energy and fighting global warming while running for president and asking for my vote.

Whoa! Link, You got banned on liberal site for telling the truth? Jeez...even ole Al Frankenfart is more tolerant than that. Maybe it was someones time of the month over thar.

Sneauxman: I think you're living in a blizzard or suffering from WldFlwr Syndrome.

unpoor,

I just love it when you correct my spelling!

Paul, Really? ... some how I doubt that.

No women as head of emerging communist nations? They're NEWER than we are... remember women only got the right to vote in THIS country within the past 100 years or so... and we're more than double that age... OH... and how many women have been president of THIS country? FURTHER... do you really think that Hillary, as a woman, doesn't have additional prejudice BECAUSE she's a WOMAN? Sorry Wld, that's a very weak argument...

Re a GOOD ANSWER as to why we should begin to deploy our military OUT of Iraq... obvious answer... GWB'S ANSWER!!! AS WE STAND DOWN, THEY'LL HAVE TO STAND UP!!!

Isn't it enough that we've ended the rule of Saddam? Problem is, we've allowed the sectarian violence to escalate... and our presence gives all sides someone to shoot at... so the sooner we remove our troops from the center, the sooner these factions find their own compromise... the way the blue and the grey did... because this is a CIVIL WAR!!!

Have we destabilized the Middle East by removing Saddam? ABSOLUTELY!!! Can we go BACK... nope... but if the POTUS and his pigheaded cabal listened to people of reason, like COLIN POWELL, we'd have planned better, or, as the very same powerpeople (Cheney,Rumsfeld et al) had done in the 80s, we'd have whipped Saddam into shape... in NON-MILITARY ways... because he wasn't in any position to cause problems for US militarily at the time... and THEY KNEW IT!!! (Keep watching that Libby trial... should become more obvious even to you wingnuts that the Plame incident crystallized the entire sham that was WMD...)

Finally, TK, my "have a nice life" is a reference to the suggestion that people generally enjoy their own ignorance... so those who choose to remain ignorant should go about their business with "happy moron" syndrome... This particular 'idiot' (as someone referred to me) is no idiot, no ignoramus, and is frustrated by people who don't listen to ALL sides before forming opinions...

jz, I agree that those who call others idiots usually suffer from that malady themselves and lack reason, persuasive powers or articulate argument -- thus the name calling. It's all they are capable of.

Your contention that we have destabilized the Mid-East however, by our venture into Iraq, is not provable. It's sort of like saying that you make the Antarctic colder by putting a tray of ice cubes there. The Mid East has long been the most unstable part of the world -- that is precisely why we are there.

I notice that you avoided addressing the huge elephant in the room, you know, the one I brought to your attention, i.e. the horrendous consequences of our leaving Iraq quickly. Pretty clearly, that would cause hundreds of thousands of deaths in Iraq and destabilize the entire region, possibly leading to all out war involving Israel, which will use its nukes to survive.

Don't worry, all.

Being inundated with Presidential hopefuls years prior to it mattering is just a ruse to distract the masses that the Republi-Crat party continues to bulldoze the Constitution (which is a far better read than current affairs) and the people of this nation. Heck, now that both parties are fully in line with the "Provide the General Welfare" clause, they continue to accomplish government largesse in lock step.






ps. diagnoser...take your spam to the newsgroups and email where it belongs.

jz, if you want to attempt to refute logical analysis that takes into account the "Big Picture," please take a look at Shutter's 1-26 post of 9:32PM which ends:

"Now, considering that any one of these afore mentioned powder kegs could be enough to spark WW III do you really think that our pulling out is a good idea? Yes we screwed up big time when we went into Iraq but we made our bed and now we have to sleep in it."

This is what I've been trying to point out to you, but shutter has done a better job of it.

there is nothing argumentative or "gotcha" here jz, it just seems that these things are awfully hard, if not impossible, to refute. Certainly they cannot be ignored.

well tk, I guess you are right, maybe the blog is really going out of business. They gave us a lame topic to begin with and I guess Bob Lussier is no longer around to change it.

sir loin says, "I would not doubt it if it were discovered that all the agricultural poisonings that occurred with Taco Bell, spinach and other food sources were tests by terrorists to see what was possible."
Well sir loin, you know what they say, "Just because you're paranoid doesnt mean the bastards aren't out to get ya."

OOPS, didn't see KLC's post. Glad they are not defunct. Eagerly await the new topic. Actually tk, TIME Warner is a pretty successful company, much more successful than say Ford Motor Co. which announced a couple of days ago that it loses $2,000 for every car it sells! Ford stock is down to a little over $8 -- might be a bargain at that price.

link, don't you think it's a little extreme to put ALL Muslims in the same basket? If you do that, then there are 1.5 billion of them who want to behead you. If that's the case, you're a goner. I tend to think that only about 105 are jihadists. Still that's 150,000,000. At least the odds are better.

that should be 10% not 105.

Posted by: 5p1der on Jan 27, 07 | 1:04 pm


Agreed, I just sent an email to Bob requesting the spammer be blocked and the post removed.

An obtuse thought, religions are man's attempt at reconciling his origins and finding some kind of order in one's life. The need for comfort and reduction of fear and self actualization being a driving force. Nice concepts, but over the centuries tainted by greed and the thirst for power and control by persons who possess less than lofty altruistic goals of live and let live. Most of the religions have bloodletting in their past, and have diminished that thirst. We are now engaged in conflicts with a military theocracy, who, on the surface professes to be submissive to God and his "prophet" and wants others to do so or die. Moderates in this country know that the long arm of Islam is more vengeful than any Mafia (pick a nationality), Yakuza or whatever, and act accordingly. Dialogue with these folks is often cloudy and points being dicussed are often diverted and turned into nonissues which we "nomuslims" don't understand. Is there a solution to this kind of thinking ? I think not. The basis for that conclusion is that the children are being indoctrinated from the time they learn how to listen talk and read.
A non sarcastic question, are there any posters on this site who have any ideas or insight on how to coexist with these folks ? Because we surely can't kill them all or change thier thinking.

Jonathan Alter
• The Obama Madrassa Hoax
What a bogus report on Barack Obama reveals about the media food chain.


Jan. 27, 2007 - What will the first full week of Campaign '08 be remembered for? That Barack Obama was under attack for his behavior as a six-year-old. It’s worth revisiting the Madrassa Hoax story for what it tells us about our warp-speed politics.

The subtext of the story was that Obama was some kind of Muslim Manchurian Candidate (or the Russian spy played by Kevin Costner in “No Way Out”)—trained in an Indonesian religious school to be a jihadist who would do Al Qaeda’s work from within. Under the old media order, the whole thing would have made for a nice joke amid the somber mood surrounding President Bush’s State of the Union address. But this is a different time, when every campaign lives in fear of being Swift-Boated. Even after the story was debunked, the folks at Fox News Channel wouldn’t apologize, and in one case kept pushing a line on the air they knew was false.

The pathetic little saga begins on the Web site of Insight Magazine, a scandal sheet connected to the Rev. Sun Myung Moon’s Washington Times. On Jan. 17, Insight reported that “Hillary Rodham Clinton’s camp” had conducted a background check that found Obama attended a madrassa (religious seminary) when he moved with his mother and stepfather to Jakarta in the late 1960s. The idea, according to Insight, was to show that Obama was deceptive about his “Muslim past.” Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson says flatly: “They made it up.”

True or not, this bit of grade-school innuendo proved irresistible to Steve Doocy, know-it-all host of “Fox and Friends,” Roger Ailes’ idea for a right-wing morning chat show. Doocy garbled the story into a reference to Obama “spending the first decade of his life raised by a Muslim father.” After John Gibson of Fox repeated this yarn, which managed to slime two campaigns simultaneously, CNN dispatched a reporter to Obama’s old school in Jakarta, where he revealed it to be a normal public school with religion classes only once a week and no indication of Wahhabism, the Saudi-inspired extremist philosophy. (Indonesian schools were even more secular 40 years ago than they are today.) The whole underlying tale was untrue.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16842036/site/newsweek/

winter says, "A non sarcastic question, are there any posters on this site who have any ideas or insight on how to coexist with these folks ? Because we surely can't kill them all or change thier thinking."

Winter, That is the 64 trillion dollar question. You are absolutely right, we can't kill them all or change their thinking. By the same token I don't think they can kill us all or change our thinking either. I think it is far more likely that, in the end, they will come around to our ways of thinking than that we will adopt theirs.

Islam is essentially a backward repressive and intolerant religion. It's about where Christianity was during the Spanish inquisition. (Except even then, chistianity was a religion founded on love, and the Golden Rule.)

I really believe that as time goes on and as more and more moderate Muslims are exposed to Western Ideas and ways, western fairness and justice, and opportunity -- that they weill see the light, renounce intolerance and Jihad, and realize that freedom and tolerance are better than repression and intolerance. I think an awful lot of Muslims, including a lot of Iraqis know that now. That is clearly what President Bush thinks.

What I am saying is that Islam, needs to undergo a reformation, just as other religions have in the past. Only Islam can reform itself, after obseving freedom in the west. We can't force reformation on them. We can however help the vast majority of Muslims who are not murdering jihadis, to understnd that there is a better way. Regardless of why we went to Iraq in the first place, that is why we are there now.

I realize the odds are long, but if we were sucessful in Iraq, it could stand as a beacon for all of Islam. A model of freedom, self determination and tolerance.

Victory in Iraq could do more to defeat radical Idlamofasciism than any other thing you can imagine.

Posted by: cza on Jan 27, 07 | 2:43 pm

Yeah, I'm sure after cattle futures, Rose Law papers and Vince Foster death, campagn finance fraud, stealing White House property...just to name a few we can take Hillary and her people for their word.

HAHAHAHAHAAHHAHA!

BTW, Hanoi Jane is at it again.

Sheikh Blackrobe announced today that he will stop his attacks, and disarm his militia.

Looks like he saw some Handwriting On The Wall, eh?

With Jane Fonda ... nee movie queen, nee pampered child of privilege, media mega-mogul Ted Turner's former spouse, ever a media darling ... one basic truth should be kept in mind:

Ms. Fonda was dubbed by Viet Nam vets with another name. It shouldn't be forgotten how she earned it.

Jane Fonda gave aid and comfort to our enemy, while ordinary American citizens were fighting and dying. She did great emotional injury and injustice to all Viet Nam veterans, and their families.

Far worse, she did great harm to all American citizens, because she helped polarize us against our government, and against each other.

Her radio speech:
"This is Jane Fonda. During my two week visit in the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, I've had the opportunity to visit a great many places and speak to a large number of people from all walks of life--workers, peasants, students, artists and dancers, historians, journalists, film actresses, soldiers, militia girls, members of the women's union, writers.

I visited the (Dam Xuac) agricultural coop, where the silk worms are also raised and thread is made. I visited a textile factory, a kindergarten in Hanoi. The beautiful Temple of Literature was where I saw traditional dances and heard songs of resistance. I also saw unforgettable ballet about the guerrillas training bees in the south to attack enemy soldiers. The bees were danced by women, and they did their job well.

In the shadow of the Temple of Literature I saw Vietnamese actors and actresses perform the second act of Arthur Miller's play All My Sons, and this was very moving to me--the fact that artists here are translating and performing American plays while US imperialists are bombing their country.

I cherish the memory of the blushing militia girls on the roof of their factory, encouraging one of their sisters as she sang a song praising the blue sky of Vietnam--these women, who are so gentle and poetic, whose voices are so beautiful, but who, when American planes are bombing their city, become such good fighters.

I cherish the way a farmer evacuated from Hanoi, without hesitation, offered me, an American, their best individual bomb shelter while US bombs fell near by. The daughter and I, in fact, shared the shelter wrapped in each others arms, cheek against cheek. It was on the road back from Nam Dinh, where I had witnessed the systematic destruction of civilian targets-schools, hospitals, pagodas, the factories, houses, and the dike system.

As I left the United States two weeks ago, Nixon was again telling the American people that he was winding down the war, but in the rubble-strewn streets of Nam Dinh, his words echoed with sinister (words indistinct) of a true killer. And like the young Vietnamese woman I held in my arms clinging to me tightly--and I pressed my cheek against hers--I thought, this is a war against Vietnam perhaps, but the tragedy is America's.

One thing that I have learned beyond a shadow of a doubt since I've been in this country is that Nixon will never be able to break the spirit of these people; he'll never be able to turn Vietnam, north and south, into a neo-colony of the United States by bombing, by invading, by attacking in any way. One has only to go into the countryside and listen to the peasants describe the lives they led before the revolution to understand why every bomb that is dropped only strengthens their determination to resist.

I've spoken to many peasants who talked about the days when their parents had to sell themselves to landlords as virtually slaves, when there were very few schools and much illiteracy, inadequate medical care, when they were not masters of their own lives.

But now, despite the bombs, despite the crimes being created--being committed against them by Richard Nixon, these people own their own land, build their own schools--the children learning, literacy--illiteracy is being wiped out, there is no more prostitution as there was during the time when this was a French colony. In other words, the people have taken power into their own hands, and they are controlling their own lives.

And after 4,000 years of struggling against nature and foreign invaders--and the last 25 years, prior to the revolution, of struggling against French colonialism--I don't think that the people of Vietnam are about to compromise in any way, shape or form about the freedom and independence of their country, and I think Richard Nixon would do well to read Vietnamese history, particularly their poetry, and particularly the poetry written by Ho Chi Minh."

Now, she's at it again. Vietnam War protest icon Jane Fonda took the stage in her first anti-war demonstration in decades as tens of thousands massed to demand that Congress cut off funds for the Iraq war.

"I haven't spoken at an anti-war rally for 34 years," said Fonda, whose visit to Hanoi in 1972 outraged many pro-Vietnam War Americans and damaged her reputation as an actress.

"But silence is no longer an option," she said to cheering protesters.

The huge crowd rallied at the foot of the US Capitol, home of the US legislature, chanting, "Bring the troops home now" and waving banners that declared "Escalation in Iraq? Wrong Way."

Hanoi Jane is at it again. I stopped watching her movies, and moves, years ago. We are the ones who give her the celebrity status that allows these traitorous acts.

MAYBE WE CAN GET THE CIA AND FBI ON TO THAT CITE LINK. tHEY MAY BE ABLE TO PICK UP SOME INTELLEGENCE.

SO JZ: hAVE A NICE LIFE WAS A NICE WAY TO CALL PEOPLE NAMES SUCH AS IGNORAMOUS

Rich: Ford is going broke becaus it has to pay Cognito's pension. An their current workers 70 dollars an hour. Which supports the 1/4 million a year union bosses.

Winter if only you and i were 40 years younger we could handle them all and we would not even need marines.

sixty years ago i only had regilous classes once a week and i am still catholic. Of course i would not be killed by the pope if i switched, just excommunicated.
What about the part of the story that said once born of a muslim father always a muslim and switching means he is an infidel? News week got some news on that?

"Rich: Ford is going broke becaus it has to pay Cognito's pension. An their current workers 70 dollars an hour. Which supports the 1/4 million a year union bosses. "

Exactly

tk, Thank you, wish I could, Honestly still healthy, but the military says I'm too old...age discrimination !!!!!

Posted by: tkearns on Jan 27, 07 | 6:10 pm

What if you don't tell anyone from the Catholic church and marry a Lutheran? What happens then?

I'm not very confident there will be a return to peaceful coexistence with the Islamists anytime soon.

The enmity that exists between Islam and the Judeo-Christian World is derived not only from a vast religious and ideological chasm, but is exacerbated by the dominance of Western Civilization in economic terms.

We are now weakened by a sense of collective guilt for our success and centuries of superiority in all matters progressive until we have now developed an almost pathological tendency toward self blame. Liberal ideologues in particular urge us to navel gaze and thus ignore the reality building around us. For a variety of reasons, including fear, political correctness and tolerance, most westerners have been unwilling to look the Islamic fundamentalist beast in the eye and see it for what it is. We are detracted by the media and the academics from exercising a true stop, look, and listen approach to what is developing in the world. The ultra-fast pace of political change is forcing many Americans to just pretend danger has past or to ignore its existence. Rather than thinking hard, it is so much easier to adopt the belief that somehow it will all work out to our advantage. Not So.

Re-read the statements of Islam's Vladimir Lenin. A fundamental awakening was stoked by Osama Bin Laden when he spoke or wrote a few simple words, and these words carry enough weight to keep the fire of enmity burning for a very long time and the likelihood of peaceful coexistence a very distant hope.

"This war is fundamentally religious...Those who try to cover this crystal clear fact, which the entire world has admitted, are deceiving the Islamic nation. They are trying to deflect the attention of the Islamic nation from the truth of this conflict...Under no circumstances should we forget this enmity between us and the infidels. For the enmity is based on creed."

"What are we calling you (Americans) to, and what do we want from you ?"

"The first thing we are calling you to is Islam...and of the discarding of all the opinions, orders, theories and religions which contradict with the religion He (Allah) sent down to his Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him)"

"The second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression, lies, immorality and debauchery that has spread among you."

"We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honor, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling and trading with interest...."

"It is saddening to tell you that you are the worst civilization witnessed by the history of mankind."

"You are a nation who, rather than ruling by the Sharia of Allah in its constitution and laws, choose to invent your own laws as you will and desire. You separate religion from your policies, contradicting the pure nature which affirms Absolute Authority to the Lord and your Creator."

Still think peaceful coexistence is possible ?

Isn't it amazing that a multimillionaire should be dictating the way poor folks think ? But then it happens all the time, doesn't it ? Islamic, Christian or whatever. Religion, food for the masses.

TK you still don't get it... Have a nice life means simply this: Live and let live... what don't you get about that concept? Stop the garbage and get back to discussion of issues, not personalities... if you read the post carefully, you'll see that it was a clarification that I am not an ignoramus... and didn't call YOU one, unless you fall into that category of people who refuse to listen to all sides, before forming an opinion... and refuse to redress your opinions as the facts and circumstances change...

Re the comment about the BIG ELEPHANT in the room... I did answer... my belief is that we would better serve the Middle East in general by NOT BEING OCCUPIERS... but rather as partners with allied nations in the region... we'd be better off if a multi-national coalition TRULY existed... but we all know that this is a US action with a smattering of troops from very few other nations... quite different than the Gulf War in 1991... and with no allies, no intelligence on the inside, and little hope of turning things around with the miniscule and probably pointless escalation planned, what ARE we really doing? We're putting another 20,000 of our kids into the shooting gallery... with a probable outcome that will not be much different than the one we're faced with today.

Oddly enough, (and you'll probably call me a liar here, but this is the truth) I supported the VietNam War, until it became obvious that there were lies that put us there as well... and the claim that stopping communism in Southeast Asia would in some way save our souls here became a most ridiculous reason for the deaths of 50,000 of our kids... I had a good friend who enlisted and was killed there... and for what? Within four years of his death, the US realized that keeping the North and South apart was pointless... and so was Lanny's death... POINTLESS... Guess that's why I really despise these 'accidental' wars... after all, now that we know the REAL reason for starting it was baloney, what else could you call this?
Yaddayaddayadda we're there NOW... well... I still see so many parallels to VietNam (as do others)... and again I say that IF and WHEN we stand down, they'll HAVE to STAND UP!!!
Further... unless you think that we need to occupy Iraq indefinitely, whenever that time does come when we're ready to redeploy, we're back to the same mess we've got today... Other Arab nations should step up to the plate and damp this thing down... The Iraqi people need to do their own policing... and we need to let them... Iran would not be as big a problem today if we had gone in and done the job right... but we blew it... so now it's up to the regional leadership of Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Pakistan et al... countries in the locale... to tame this region... Leaving will give the insurgents fewer targets... and perhaps will be the beginning of a better public relations campaign for NOT HATING US... AND it is up to us to secure our borders, do what we have to do to protect our homeland as best we can, and stop trying to be the world's parents...

No, there is NO easy answer... but the method we're using now is a failure, plain and simple... so we need to change course... not STAY the COURSE... and no one said to do it in 24 hours... but we can't wait four more years either... it's too costly in lives and not worth the waste of trillions...

Last word... sorry gang... I'll still go to my grave BLAMING the incompetence of this administration for NOT reading the clues that lead up to 911, and then using the national tragedy that ensued for political gain, at the expense of the people who trusted them... They should all be prosecuted for WAR CRIMES... not just against other nations, but against the AMERICAN PEOPLE as well... oh... and WHERE IS OSAMA BIN LADEN? Why haven't we heard HIS NAME in all of this?

(Oops... the topic was OBAMA not OSAMA... yeah, I know... just a bit of humor to end the piece!!!)

"So if he's still a "rock star" at that time and someone (Hillary) takes him as a running mate, wouldn't that just hand the election to the GOP?"

Not at all. But it would still depend on who the Repugs might dredge up to run.

Thinking voters are not going to fall for any of the bizarre insanity around his name. It was all brought up when he ran for his senate seat and he won something like 70+% of the vote in that race! Nobody who actually goes to the polls was dumb enough to be flimflammed by the hoopla.

As for Hillary, she seems to have a sterling record as a senator, and she has served well on all the committees right down to voting for the war - and has not since yet voted against it. With no strikes against her as a senator she may be able to overcome those White House years.

SNOWMAN he has all the qualifications any man needs to run for the presidency - at least 35 years old, American citizen born on American soil and no felony convictions. That's it. There are no others required. Aside from that - college educated, ivy leaguer, in a white collar profession, married with children. AND he is a U.S. Senator which is more and more becoming THE stepping stone to the White House.

You are not a racist if you are only prejudiced againt Islamists. ISLAM IS A RELIGION, not a race.

In Davos once again the asswipe from MA blasts his own country.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,247484,00.html

"islam is the only “religion” which claims that it is the sacred responsibility of its adherents to see that the American government be operated in subordination to the edicts of its clerics. "

Well then 3.5 MILLION American muslims ignore that precept.

Technically Christians are supposed to follow our relgion ahead of any government. It just happens that the American government is built on Christian principles and hopefully the antiGod forces will never prevail so that won't change. We can accept the separation of church and state so long as there are no conflicts.

"Muslims, by the very definition of what it means to be a muslim, believe in Islamic Law with all their heart and soul"

As do Christians, as do Jews. Any religion that does not entail belief with all the heart and soul would by definition not be a religion at all.

Pass laws that violate Christian precepts and 80% of the population will have some serious decisions to make!

There is nothing in our Constitution that supports denying anyone citizenship based on their religion. In fact it is the opposite.

IF you want it any other way then first you have to change the Constitution! So go right ahead SNOW...Nobody is stopping you.

We have no grounds for deportation of law-abiding people on the grounds their religious beliefs unless you want to make being this religion or that ILLEGAL. Again, SNOW, go right ahead.

"educating" America with lies and distortions is wrong. The hatemongers are not interested in truth, they are interested in instilling mortal fear in the gullible in the interest of gaining support for their own freaked out militantism which is just as vile and dangerous as the radical muslims.

Wlflr... you didn't read the question, do you ever read through these posts?... the question was what did Osoma Obama acheive to be recognized as the most qualified democrat? Yes, he is over 40 and breathes, yadda yadda yadda... Jz failed to answer, you didn't even come close to answering it.

No doubt Kerry's criticism of America will be followed by dismay over how our image in the world continues to decline. Well, wake up Kerry. It's declining because of YOU. They're getting their opinions from YOU. The world media is quoting YOU. They hate us because YOU told them to. YOUR speech will be broadcast around the world, and our image will suffer for it. Kerry, you're nothing but a typical liberal idiot who creates problems and then complains about them.

"Can someone please tell me why these people are allowed in the West? "

what is anyone calling "the west"? And who owns "the west"? The last I knew the entire planet belongs to the human race although we share it with other species and cohabitate hopefully for the betterment of all so we can surive.

Well if you want to live in Canada you have to live by Canadian law. Nothing complicated about that if the courts and the lawyers would get in line and just enforce the laws.

Same for living in America. We have differences in what is marriage and divorce between some churches and the civil law in this country but in all cases the civil law takes precedence. I know of a woman whose husband refuses to bother to get the annulment the church requires and he promised as a condition of her marrying him. She is, however, legally married to him because they have a license so no matter how she feels about this they are married and she can't get unmarried without a civil divorce. The fact he doesn't have enough respect for her or their religion to get the annulment doesn't mean a thing. And no she can't stab him and he can't stab her and the kids are protected from both of them.

THE LAW IS THE LAW IS THE LAW.

Is this a conflict between a Christian church and the government? Yes. Is anyone going to try to carry it out in some ploy against the state? Probably not because the church stands behind the civil law just the same in this case.

Nobody is giving bin Laden what he wants because he wants to rule the WORLD. He is just one more in a long line thru history who has wanted to and nobody has managed thus far to pull it off . He won't either.

He isn't even RELIGIOUS - he is one more who perverts a religion for his own purposes. He capitalizes on the uneducated state of the poverty stricken muslim masses.

He can't pull it off with educated muslims, they know better.

Muslims do NOT follow this nonsense. Terrorists follow it. And they are NOT THE SAME. You can misread the scripture all you want, you can dredge up misquotes and power-hungry toy soldiers of any cause but it won't change the reality of ISLAM the religion and all this terrorist b.s. is not the core of this religion.

IF you want to do so, you can extrapolate scriptures and prove that Christians intend to rule the world, that we are called by God to destroy everyone who disagrees with us. That was the goal in the Crusades - to take back the Holy Lands from infidels which then were muslims and jews!

There are those who have done the same with the Jews - trying to prove they are out to take over the world.

Every religion can be accused of this.

IF the media ever decides to read it the other way Christians will be in the hotseat. And don't think it cannot happen!

SNOW your approach is doing nothing but endangering your children and your grandkids by stirring up a problem that doesn't exist in America! You will start a war and bring it down on your own heads. YOU ARE THE TERRORIST calling people to unite against law-abiding American citizens. One of those gullible victims of your email campaigns will fire the first shot thinking they are in danger when they are not.

Every time I get one of those crazed emails I edit the thing, change the word "muslim" to "terrorist" and send it back! Nobody will argue the terrorists are dangerous and out to get us but we do not have millions of terrorists in America.

bin Laden HAS NO GRIEVANCES except he isn't in Mecca controlling the world.

LINK why go to a website where you know you are not welcome? where you know everyone there will disagree with anything and eveything you think? It's pointless, you won't gain any converts. You won't save any souls. You will only stir them up and that just makes them more determined to hang in there.

ACE John Edwards worked his way up from dirt poor. Now he's an attorney. He has been there, done that and nobody should begrudge him the success he has now.

As for his legal career and the nonsense you are going to hear about him - he took on some incompetant doctors whose horrendous sloppiness destroyed the lives of some of their patients! There IS such a thing as malpractice! So before you go off the shallow end on Edwards READ SOME OF THE CASES!

ACE you missed the point of my post - that Obama does not have to do anything to be more qualified than anyone else - because we didn't think it was necessary to build anything into our system requiring anything beyond his age and citizenship etc.

Perhaps we should give this some thought! Every election we see the same question - what did the candidate do? and it does not require an answer! WHY NOT?

Every job has some list of qualifications - education, experience...why not the most important job in this country?

ACE "What if you don't tell anyone from the Catholic church and marry a Lutheran? What happens then?"

Nothing happens. Even if you do tell someone nothing happens.

Where I live the Catholics are all intermarried with the Baptists and the Lutherans [note - the Lutherans do not ever marry each other, not cross-synod] and nothing happens. Our priests give the sacraments to the Protestant spouses the same as the Protestant ministers all accept the Catholics in their congregations. IF anyone made some fuss with the Bishop some paperwork might be shuffled, or not. Peace in the church is the order of the day and nobody in this diocese is doing anything to stir up a fuss.

Technically if you requested a sacrament that required documentation then there could be questions raised. But don't ask, don't tell.

It is always laughable, yet sad, to read the posts of those who like to draw moral equivalencies as an argument justifying the proposition that our enemies are not that bad nor all that many.

Unfortunately this is not the time to understand how to coexist with any muslims who may be our friends, but rather how we can manage to survive those who are our enemies.

Those focused on muslims who may be our friends and not those who are our enemies may not be commiting suicide but are committed to suicide.

Arnold Toynbee, the famous historian once said: "Civilizations die from suicide not murder."

The pooh-poohing of the power and influence of fundamental Islamists on the vast millions who adher to a cult-like religion is an act of suicide.

Those who do so are no better than liberal-leftists who choose the fear-based strategy of weakness by always choosing to deny, defy and decry.

<<Where I live the Catholics are all intermarried with the Baptists and the Lutherans [note - the Lutherans do not ever marry each other, not cross-synod] and nothing happens. Our priests give the sacraments to the Protestant spouses the same as the Protestant ministers all accept the Catholics in their congregations. IF anyone made some fuss with the Bishop some paperwork might be shuffled, or not. Peace in the church is the order of the day and nobody in this diocese is doing anything to stir up a fuss.>>Posted by: WldFlwr on Jan 28, 07 | 2:18 am


This entirely depends on the area you live, I think. My wife is Baptist and I'm Catholic--when we went through our pastor's marriage classes, my wife literally believed that Catholics don't read from the Bible. Someone is still out there teaching that other faiths in the same religion aren't false. Not false religions mind you--false faith. Good thing we have that first amendment, otherwise, I am certain we would be as caught up in intra-faith warring as the Darfur region, a kind of "your not taking the sacrements correctly...DIE heathen!"

Someone is still out there teaching that other faiths in the same religion [sic]are false.

Everyone on here has an opinion of what is wrong with this country. Few ever talk about pratical, common sense solutions. We tend to complicate things too much.

While reading my email I came across this and did a real LOL...

"Everyone concentrates on the problems we're having in this country lately; illegal immigration, hurricane recovery, wild animals attacking humans in Florida .
Not me. I concentrate on solutions to problems. The result is a win-win-win situation:
+ Dig a moat the length of the Mexican border
+ Use the dirt to raise the levies in New Orleans
+ Put the Florida alligators in the moat.
Any other problems you would like for me to solve today? "

Whoever originated this should be the one running for president.

Speaking of which, I ran to the store this morning and had to take a different route home as the street was blocked by a police car.

I asked the cop what was going on he told me it was for security percautions, Mrs. Clinton was at a local eatery.

Now, as I drove several blocks out of my way home the thought occured to me that if I had to steer clear of her now I might as well do so in November of next year also.

Just my two cents worth on a cold winter morning (2 degrees outside with a windchill of 21 below.)

Posted by: BobbyGee on Jan 28, 07 | 10:23 am


People recognize we have enemies regardless of their lables, BobbyGee. Why can't that be enough?

Let us take the discussion to N. Ireland, where a major world power has committed terrorist acts, yet left unmentioned by Bush. Is it because the English have such a large lobby in Congress that my family's roots are able to be, as the borg would say, assimilated? The Irish have the same complaint that Palestinians have: that that land wasn't rightfully theirs from the getgo. One Tora reading later changes that? A dependable ally changes that? The lands are either rightfully theirs or it is not.

In this war on terrorism, there is a lot of the pot calling the kettle black. I think many folks recognize this and aren't eager to go putting their name in the hat just because the likes of Bush say to do so. He wasn't trusted by nearly 30% of the nation when he took office, and his own actions have reversed that--30% still trust him. How do we know that it is not his actions directly that have made this nation a bigger bulls eye for instead of the next two generations, had he left the war on terror in Afghanistan, but for the next 10?

One of the earlier posts said something about backing the Pres during war, that not doing so was immoral (or to that effect). No offense to the poster (I forget who)...but this is not a book called "Of Mice and Men" where Lennie is dependent on George because he's a simpleton. If ole George is indeed committing/committed treason and a person is encouraging it...that person is just as guilty of treason, IMO.


Guilty until proven innocent, using honest evidence.
Democracy is the will of the People, not the will of military might.

George Bush obviously has a lot to learn about the principles that have guided this country successfully for far more years than his failed leadership will be remembered. Blindly following him to battle is a fools errand.

<<I asked the cop what was going on he told me it was for security percautions, Mrs. Clinton was at a local eatery.
>>Posted by: shutterhunter on Jan 28, 07 | 10:40 am

Not to minimize the dangers, but given she is a Throne hopeful in an atmosphere of a divided America, even the likeliest Queen doesn't deserve a death sentence carried out by yet another American who doesn't want to understand our government process. I would bet there are many who don't want her ending up like Bobby Kennedy.

Well said, 5pider... (10:52am)...
In response to the question posed to me above, I haven't signed on to the Obama hit parade as of yet... think he's quite intelligent, well- educated, and has excellent leadership qualities... probably would make an excellent president, a president for the people, if he gets that far...
That being said, I'm still watching... and waiting... for the best candidate to throw his hat into the ring... the man with statesmanship, experience, intelligence, education, and the man who's been on the CORRECT side of every issue in the public discussion... go ahead and laugh, wingnuts, but you know this to be TRUE... even your hero GWB has taken to repeating his mantras in the recent State of the Union... so let's hear it... wouldn't AL GORE be the best man for the job?
Would I vote for Hillary? Would I vote for Obama? Who are they running AGAINST? OOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH...
you didn't expect that!!!
Sorry again... but SURPRISE!!! I need to see the candidates... listen to their plans...
****see how truthful they are...
learn about their positive and negative qualities, before I commit myself to voting for them... Wish every voter would do the same, instead of lining up like automatons behind partisan labels... We'd all be better off!!!
(Historically speaking, the majority of those presidents considered the best were elected with large bi-partisan support... in other words, these people appealed to everyone, not to a select group... and these presidents did not exclude the opposition from the processes...)

Also concur about Hillary's protection, 5pider... it's too bad these people have to worry about some nut ending their lives...

This guy Obama writes a book in 1995 - Dreams from My Father in which he says racism put pressure on his parents marriage (Dad was black, Mom was white) and that his Dad lost his job because he fought "colonialism" in Kenya.

Appears to be all lies.

Dad was a drunk and a bigamist.

Perfect.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23383304-details/A+drunk+and+a+bigot+-+what+the+US+Presidental+hopeful+HASN%2527T+said+about+his+father.../article.do

As an ex first lady Hillary is entiled to and will have, till the end of her days, a Secret Service security detail. As a presidential candidate, she will have an enhanced detail.

Posted by: shutterhunter on Jan 28, 07 | 10:40 am

Ok here is a solution...

1. First do not let anymore Muslims come here.

2. Deport all illegal Muslims.

3. Charge groups like CAIR with supporting terrorism. They just hit a Muslim with that for donating to the Happy Land Charity. (Palestinian)
CAIR had a link for donations for 911 victims and the money was diverted to this charity which the U.S. has since shut down.

4. Take the leaders of groups like the Islamic Thinkers Soc. who said they have no alliance to the U.S. Constitution and the mushroom cloud is coming to NYC. Charge them with treason. Charge the Mich. preacher who calls for the death of all who insult Mohammad with soliciting murder. Just like they did to some Muslims in the U.K., basically the same thing for those who openly support Hezbollah... jail or deportation. Hezbollah is a sworn enemy to us and there were 10,000 American Muslims at a pro-Hezbollah rally in Mich. Those people need to go.

5. Do not let any foreign (Saudis) money build Mosques or influence our schools.

jz, I don't think anyone is suggesting that we should take four more years to let Iraq sort itself out. What I am saying is.
a. the Democrats have blinders on when it comes to recognizing the potentially horrendous consequences of precipitously cutting and running.

b. If you go to war you should go to win, not to lose.

As to point a. You are a perfect example of the Democratic blindness. I have challenged you with it twice and you have simply skirted the issue rather than address it. I watched a couple of Democratic senators do the same thing on various TV talk shows this week.

I think y'all missed my point here.

Mrs Clinton is stumping in Iowa this weekend to kick off her campaign in ernest.

In short she is here to see and be seen.

Ironic that the locals have to be detoured around her for security reasons thus defeating the purpose she is here for.

Iowa staunchly defends it's first in the nation status for two reasons. One is for the prestige, the second it the money it brings. But like any good idea it eventually gets twisted into something that only the wealthy and influential get to participate in.

This is why a National Primary is just about a likely as a National Championship in NCAA Division 1 Football. Just like the Bowl games, the Caucases and Primaries are big bussiness and have little to do with the issue at hand anymore.

wld says, "ACE John Edwards worked his way up from dirt poor. Now he's an attorney. He has been there, done that and nobody should begrudge him the success he has now."

True wld, but his "two Americas" class warfare populism is pure hypocrisy, because we know that he is in the upper crust of the richest Americans, while pretending to be one of the people. Guess he thinks we're to dumb to notice.
That's just slimy.

As to his way of making a living, there is a thin line between legitimate medical malpractice litigation (necessary) and frivolous lawsuits brought by mass torts lawyers who exploit the system, driving up malpractice insurance and the cost of health care for all of us, while becoming multi-millionaires and living lavish lifestyles like Edwards. That's why the president made mention in his State of the Union Speech of capping outrageous medical mal awards. It will never happen though, because the Democratic party is bought and paid for by the American trial Lawyers Association, a powerful Democratic special interest group which doesn't want to kill the goose that keeps laying those golden eggs.

I know a secretary in NYC. Who seemed just like everyone else. One day she there was a company party and she was asked what she held higher the Koran or the U.S. Constitution. She shocked the room, when said said her goal is an Islamic USA and that see hopes everyone will live under Islam one day. Two other Muslims that I knew of where known drug dealers. Who knows where the profits went. Do you really think that all Muslims that want an Islamic USA have the courage to say so? Considering they are so outnumbered for now. As their population goes up so will their demands. That is a fact.

Go to Dearborn Mich. or parts of Virginia and Illinois and you will see tens of thousands of Muslims who do act that way.

Of bin Laden wld you say "He isn't even RELIGIOUS"
I don't think that is true at all. everything he does is guided by religious fervor in Islam. Where do you get the notion that he is not religious? That is IF he is even still alive -- which I doubt.

Please scroll up wld and read the quotes from Osama bin Laden in bobbygee's post of 8:15PM and tell me he is not religious. He is in fact an extreme religious zealot.

shutter says, "Ironic that the locals have to be detoured around her for security reasons thus defeating the purpose she is here for."
That's just the way it works shutter, the Secret service calls those shots., for EVERY candidate and every protectee.

wld says "He can't pull it off with educated Muslims, they know better."

Hate to pop your bubble wld, but it is the educated Muslims, particularly in Saudi Arabia who are funding the madrassas around the world, notably in Pakistan where tens of thousands of jihadis are being turned out who want to destroy America and Israel.

OK richstacy... now you've got me curious... what have I skirted?

if you're asking me my opinion as to how to 'win' this 'war' WE started in Iraq (because the Iraqi mess is NOT RELATED to 911 IN THE LEAST!!!) I've answered fairly clearly... we need to infiltrate the problem organizations... we need to bring into our camp moderate Muslim factions in all of the surrounding countries in order to support some sort of CIVIL resolution to the bloodbath... we need MUSLIM nations to step into Iraq to help restore some sort of order... Too bad we've blown many opportunities in Iran... NO I HATE AHMEDINIJAD so don't go there... but just perhaps if we didn't turn our back, we might have been able to convince the Iranian people that he wasn't the man to elect... or perhaps we might had been able to lend some covert support to factions who'd have undermined his leadership and deposed him...

It is unfortunate but fact that factions like these generally will not listen to outsiders... You'll never get true Muslims to listen to anyone BUT Muslims... and WE are NOT Muslims!!!

I know that the idea of communication is a stupid one to people who'd rather fire their guns and blow things up... but again, the REAL END to conflicts comes when the pen hits the paper... NOT when the last volley of fire starts and ends... remember PARIS and Viet Nam? How 'bout the APPOMATTOX COURT HOUSE... now that was the ending to a CIVIL WAR... we need one of those in Iraq... and outsiders aren't going to bring that about...

We will never 'win' the 'war on terror' just as we will never 'win' the 'war on poverty' or the 'war on ignorance' because there are too many cockroaches to kill and too many Is to dot and Ts to cross... it just ain't happenin'... I'll have to use a phrase that has disappeared from the litany of political spin over the years... 'peaceful coexistence'... it isn't appeasement... but it IS a real and possibly long-lasting SOLUTION...

Unless we convince the jihadists that their idea is WRONG, that Allah DOESN'T want them to destroy the world, we'll be fighting the 'war on terror' until Armageddon... which could be imminent, if we don't find a better approach...

If I haven't directly answered your question, please rephrase so that I can attempt once again to do so...

Wld and Jz seem to be equally wrong today. Catholics that get the sacrements with out being accepted into the church are in the same status as illigaal alians are in the united states.
Wld : you xconfuse religion with government. I read your divorce example four time and i do not understand it yet. They are sepearate actions and the civil action rules for citizens. Your status with the church is governed with the rulings of the church and their is no connection. I learned last week that the law is the law but some laws are uninforcable because they are not clear. The law i was saying that was violated was not enforciable by the state because the word "near" was not defined. The state official said that near is not definiative and there fore can not enforced. Does that sound familiar?

On the topic. All sides have introduced the spin and wld has decided that it will not be paid any attention as we go forward.I still have a couple of questions before the new subject tomorrow.

1. If Obama went to the muslim school that only has regligon classes once a week or day. Then when do the muslim teach their children to pray five times a day? Did BO have to pray 5 times a day towards mecca?

2. How many times does he have to pray 5 times a day to be considered a muslim.

3. Do the muslims have baptism like most christians have?

4. When does it occur and was BO subjected to same?

Anybody know or do we have to send out the Clinton inspectors to determine the answers. Or maybe we can send out the former ISG, they are good at finding non partisen solutions.

Before anybody goes off on me for asking these questions, i am only asking the same type of questions that the press asks of the president during press conferances. I expect the same respect that the media correspondents get.

jz, I don't know how to state it more clearly, what you are skirting is this: What are the potential negative consequences if we got out of Iraq too quickly. How many Iraqis will die? (Remember the 2 million Cambodians who died as an indirect result of our breaking our promises to the South Vietnamese, to say nothing of tens of thousands of south Vietnamese who made the mistake of relying on our word.?) Won't the Shiite militias slaughter thousands of Sunnis for payback?

Will Iran be emboldened? Syria? Will it widen the turmoil in the area? If so will Israel be drawn into the conflagration, will it then be forced to use its nukes to survive. Then will we wind up having to go back in because of our precipitous withdrawal and lose tens of thousands of American lives? These are just a few of the questions that wise policy makers are asking themselves, but which seem to hold no interest whatever for Democrats.

One other question: Is it worth nothing to try to bring peace and stability to Iraq? To establish an oasis of pluralism and tolerance in the most intolerant, troubled and turbulent part of the world? Have our boys all died in vain? I do not submit these question to you in any kind of sarcastic tone at all. They are very sincere.

Everyone wants to get out of Iraq as soon as we can, but not before there is a chance for avoiding foreseeable horrendous negative consequences. Having lived through one wasted war, I don't want to see another one.

If we pull out too quickly now, we could literally force a downward spiral into general war in the area. There are still a few, Bush McCain and 1/3 of America, who don't think that is wise.

wINTER:Gen "Blackjack" Pershing would concur.

I could hear Patton saying this, couldn't you......

A Message from the Ghost of General Patton....!

ATTENTION!

To those whining, panty-wasted, pathetic Maggots, it's time for a little refresher course on exactly why we Americans occasionally have to fight wars. See if you can tear yourself away from your "reality"
TV and Starbucks for a minute, pull your head out of your flabby aXX
-- and LISTEN UP!!
Abu Ghraib is not "torture" or an "atrocity".
This is the kind of thing frat boys, sorority girls, and academy cadets Do to newcomers. A little fun at someone else's expense.
Certainly no reason to wring your hands or get your panties in a wad.

WHICH PART DON'T YOU GET?

Islam a peaceful religion???
Millions of these sons-of-iches are plotting as we speak to
destroy our country and our way of life any way they can. Some of
them are here among us now. Some think if we give them a hug or listen to them, then they'll like us.. And if you agree? Then you are a dumb aXX!

If they manage to get their hands on a nuke, chemical agents, or even some anthrax -- you will wish to God we had hunted them down and killed THEM while we had the chance.

Stop bitchin' about your damn Health Care, Social Security, Gas prices, and your measly 3.25% unemployment rate...and start worrying about you, your family's, and your friends' aXXes.

How many more Americans must be beheaded before you stop blaming
Bush for all your troubles -- You've fallen asleep AGAIN, maggots!
And you may not get another chance!

NOW GET OFF YOUR SORRY AXX
And pass this on to any and every person you give a damn about.. If you ever gave a damn about anything


>>>> > DISMISSED

As I have said before we will never leave Iraq in any of our life times. Past successes have required a stabilizing force to remain in Germany, Korea, Japan and our presidense is in many other countrys today doing more than the UN is.

Jz: i could not follow your answer to the posed questins seems to have a lot of contridictions. We have to talk in one place then in another it i satated they will never listen. I quit talking to myself when i strated getting answers i did not agree with. Maybe bush feels that way. I also have been advised to stop talking to you because their is not hope but is still do. You want intellegence i guess from the inside. How do you expect to get that if you leave? We can not listen to transmissions in the United states but we can in other countries and our technology is the best. Doubt if the signal reaches to Okinowa where MUrta wants to visit the troops.

Tk, This article has been circulating on the net for a few years. Should you or any of the other posters have seen it before, please pardon my redundancy.
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_black_jack_pershing.htm
Each Administration in this great nation has been guilty to one degree or another in practicing disinformation or omission of facts in just about all of the wars we have been engaged in. The bottom line is, we are in it, so what do we do now that we are engaged ?
Being nasty and warlike and extracting information and exacting retribution seem to make many of our citizens queasy. Gen Petraeus is going to do his best and I'll bet with in a couple of months he'll star drawing political sniper fire.
Fox had a so called military advisor who was commenting on the 3.5 grams found in the possession of a Russian fellow and mistakenly surmised that terrorists could only make "dirty Bombs" Boy, are we in trouble if we are listening to this uninformed commentator. Any high school kid interested in the subject and can read, can elucidate on the principles of implosion, gun tubes and fuzes.
I'm waiting for Sens Clinton and Obama to refine their strategies 600+ days till election time, a lot of things may change during that time frame.

BTW, When I returned to the US from a tour in Laos and was assigned to Dix aa a Basic Training Drill Sgt, in 1970, The air marshall training school had just opened up two blocks down from my company. What happened to the Air Marshals that were supposed to be on the majority of flights ? Financial constraints ? Complacency ? I gather someone here has heard that question before, if so, please enlighten me as to why the aircraft were not properly, internally protected on Sept 11, 2001 ?

richstacy, I will again try to answer you...
****What are the potential negative consequences if we got out of Iraq too quickly.
There are OH so many potential negatives on BOTH sides of the issue... you're totally ignoring the FACT that we can still be fighting in Iraq, AND attacked in other places... why do you think that this one location is the place to find the answers?

***How many Iraqis will die?
Well, that's also a good one... how many will die with YOUR idea of staying the course? How many have already died? Do you really think by staying there, creating targets for these insurgents who outnumber our troops exponentially, that we're SAVING LIVES?

*****(Remember the 2 million Cambodians who died as an indirect result of our breaking our promises to the South Vietnamese, to say nothing of tens of thousands of south Vietnamese who made the mistake of relying on our word.?)
Oh, so it was OUR fault that these people killed one another... as if we were doing a great job preventing the violence by being there, getting OUR boys killed, along WITH the Cambodians and Vietnamese?

*****Won't the Shiite militias slaughter thousands of Sunnis for payback?

Guess we're powerless to stop that too... and a 10% increase in troops will probably NOT make much of a difference...

*****Will Iran be emboldened? Syria? Will it widen the turmoil in the area? If so will Israel be drawn into the conflagration, will it then be forced to use its nukes to survive?

GREAT QUESTIONS... to which I ask this... by staying, do we PREVENT this from happening, or do we further incite violence?

*****Then will we wind up having to go back in because of our precipitous withdrawal and lose tens of thousands of American lives?

Well, I have no crystal ball, and I don't know of anyone, on either side of the conflict, who does... we've predicted this badly already... so please don't use the administration's predictions as gospel...

*****These are just a few of the questions that wise policy makers are asking themselves, but which seem to hold no interest whatever for Democrats.

WRONG... the Democrats were hoodwinked into voting for a resolution by being assured that it would be used for a REAL purpose... not for an escapade based on lies and bad information... watch that Plame trial, if you will... Carol Martin has already testified that Cheney was out to silence ANYONE who had the skinny on the WMD lie... should be great theater when HE is called to the stand... I recall a guy named Spiro Agnew... perhaps Cheney will be the second VP to have to resign... stay tuned...

*****One other question: Is it worth nothing to try to bring peace and stability to Iraq? To establish an oasis of pluralism and tolerance in the most intolerant, troubled and turbulent part of the world? Have our boys all died in vain?

Y'know, richstacy, this is the SADDEST part of your post... and one I HATE to answer... but I'll do it with a question that YOU have to ponder... did our boys DIE IN VAIN in Korea? Did they DIE IN VAIN in VietNam? Your answer and mine might be different... because we haven't brought peace and stability to Korea, we haven't created oases in Korea or VietNam, have we... but we were damn well trying to... perhaps it is not up to US to steer the people of the world... perhaps they bear some responsibility for their own destinies.

*****I do not submit these question to you in any kind of sarcastic tone at all. They are very sincere.

I take you at your word... as I believe many of us here are VERY sincere in our beliefs... I truly would love the Middle East to become a model of peace and stability for the rest of the world to enjoy... I would love to visit the Holy lands... and have yearned to visit Egypt for decades, but stay at home, because I fear for my safety... and that would be for a momentary visit... the people there live in fear for their lives each and every day... and the sorry part is that they fear US as much as they fear the insurgents we're claiming are so dangerous...

*****Everyone wants to get out of Iraq as soon as we can, but not before there is a chance for avoiding foreseeable horrendous negative consequences. Having lived through one wasted war, I don't want to see another one.
If we pull out too quickly now, we could literally force a downward spiral into general war in the area. There are still a few, Bush McCain and 1/3 of America, who don't think that is wise...

Well, these days, it's more like 26% who don't think it's wise... and I'd really love some soothsayer to tell us the correct time to leave... but that isn't going to happen... and given the inept group of yutzes steering this thing up to now, I don't really see the situation improving under their helm... hence, those 250 dead 'insurgents' this day might be a significant 'kill' for the army to boast about... but those who think they can rally us by bragging about dead insurgents while hiding the numbers of dead innocents should face facts... we don't trust these people anymore... the November elections underscored that...

Pull out tomorrow? We couldn't if we wanted to... but wouldn't it make sense to get the security of Iraq into the hands of the Iraqis? Wouldn't it make more sense to deal behind the scenes with people that to this point, GWB refuses to 'work' with? You don't have to like someone to work with him... who knows? Maybe if we beat our weapons into plowshares, something might improve... Further, you cannot convince me that all of those 'bad' countries want to wind up tinder and ashes... not everyone is a suicide jihadist... there are real people who want to survive... we need to find a way to bring those people into the solution... while we're firing on them, they won't believe that we're there to 'help' them to be free...

jz: With this post you hve convinced me that you live in a fantacy world. Somebody is providing you with the left talking points. Not even Al Gore would support your last post. Well maybe he would because you did not answer one question althought you tried. You answered most questions with a question. The true idea that these are talking points that provice the answers to change the subject of the question.
Nono of your proposals make sence. "Maybe if we beat our weapons into plowshares, something might improve" you say. It is too bad that we do not have a "worst logic of the year award" we could end the 2007 competation right now.

On another subject. I have not heard what Al Gore is going to do this election cycle? Do you Know? He has been very quite on the war. What are his views the same as yours?

"Potential negative consequences". Very interesting. Neither speculation or soothsaying is my gig, but I couldn't help imagine the following.

Does anyone remember what the Taliban regime did to the culturally and historically important Buddha statues carved into cliffs in Afghanistan ? They bombarded them with artillery and dynamite for weeks to disfigure and destroy to prove their contempt for all things non-Islamic.

Can you imagine what havoc these savages would wreak on the Louvre, the Uffizi Gallery or the Prado ? Can you envision the gleeful destruction that would befall all things Christian ? What would happen to a great city like Florence ? Michelangelo's David and Botticelli's Adoration of the Magi would be desecrated much easier than the Buddha statues. What would happen to all Christian images, to say nothing of anything Jewish ?

When the mullahs impose their sharia law on the lifestyles of European and American men and women can you hear the screeching and wailing from the abject misery it will extract ?

If cartoons can inspire mobs to riot and rip apart any Christian image they can find and to kill any innocent representing Christianity in their midst, what will they do when whole towns and cities are at their not so tender mercy ?

Help me out folks. Use your imagination. Picture and think of the things and people you love, and the lifestyle you enjoy, that glass of wine you savor, and the wonderful places you've visited that are beautiful and civil and picture these places leavened by the Muslim concept of how pleasure is to be ordered.

Think about the relationship you have with the opposite or the same sex and try to imagine how it will be changed and decreed by Islam and how little you are likely to appreciate the constricts that will be imposed by Islamic law and custom.

I don't think we can even begin to weigh or imagine the "potential negative consequences."

Bobbygee, how right you are and how crystal clear, even for the terminally naive you make the vision of the coming destruction of the West by radical Islam - but only if we let them. I'm guessing we won't. At some point even the liberals will "get it" and we will stand up and say no, and kick their ass right back under the rock from which they crawled.

jz:<<*****Won't the Shiite militias slaughter thousands of Sunnis for payback?
Guess we're powerless to stop that too... >>

Good God woman, we're stopping it right now! That is precisely the point. Our presence is the only reason a massive genocide is not taking place this very minute! If we leave, the Shiites will murder Sunni men women and children by the tens of thousands to pay Saddam's boys back, and the Sunnis will retaliate -- and on and on. Then Iran will get into the act. then the Sunni Arab nations, and God knows where it will go from there. You wouldn't abandon dogs to a fate like that, so why would you abandon human beings?

In answer to your question our boys didn't die in vain in Korea, but unfortunately in large part, they did die in vain in Vietnam.

You know as well as I do that had we not pulled out, the tens of thousands of Vietnamese who believed us, who relied on us - would still be alive, and so would 2 million Cambodians. Those are the kinds of horrendous consequences that occur when you let liberals force a retreat prematurely, or declare victory when there is none and come home too soon.

As for Korea, if you d